Last week, MadameNoire asked the following:
Do you ever wonder why there aren’t relationship books for men? http://t.co/pq7uHONmOP
— MadameNoire (@MadameNoire) September 25, 2013
As a commenter said on MadameNoire.com, “men don’t seek relationship advice, they seek relations advice.” I have to agree. I think (most) men do seek advice on how to get/meet more women, but they are less concerned about how to specifically get into or sustain a relationship with one woman. Therefore, it wouldn’t make much sense for them to read about a topic they are simply not interested in. The respectable sales of books/magazines on how to meet women or improve their odds of meeting women clearly demonstrates that men are interested in reading tips/advice on topics that interest them. So men will read and seek relationship advice as long as it’s written about the part of the relationship they’re most concerned about – meeting women.
Since it was an open-ended question from MadameNoire, I decided to ask my Twitter timeline the same question. Today, I’d like to highlight my thoughts and some of the more interesting responses.
I think y’all underestimate the male relationship advice seekers…
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
@WisdomIsMisery perhaps women don’t want to admit that the books work? Everybody’s different, but most of them books are formulaic. — Johnson (@DarrkGable) September 25, 2013
Ill bite. I read a “relationship advice” book written by some popular guy (forgot his name). In summary, his sentiment was + — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
+ treat beautiful women the same way you treat avg women. Or in NFL terms, “the 1st time u score a touchdown? Act like youve been there b4” — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
95% of men are *highly interested in 10% of women, give or take. I assume the same applies to women. No1 is fighting to date the bottom tier — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
I’d say maybe 20% have it “easy”; 40% do “ok”; and 40% struggle with women/relationships @OG_Humble_One — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
This also contributes to the confusion “@BasedCJ: WisdomIsMisery and 100% of men/women feel they are in that 10%” — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
Yup “@OG_Humble_One: WisdomIsMisery I’ve always said that women grossly overestimate how well the average guy does.”
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
The average man, if he’s lucky, won’t see any kind of sustained luck in dating until his mid 20s. That’s generally when it comes together.
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
@WisdomIsMisery that’s so true. The average guy doesn’t get it together until his mid 20s. Mid 20s he’s just starting to hit his stride. — Dontariomario TNT (@OG_Humble_One) September 25, 2013
Young WIM informed plenty women, upfront, that he was < shit. Yet they were seemingly, and surprisingly, upset when I did aint shit things. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
My father tried to coach Young WIM on this at the time, “telling a woman you ain’t no good is insufficient, son.” Naturally I ignored him. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
I felt my full disclosure obligations were met. In hindsight, I was admittedly doing the bare minimum to shield these women. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
It means he has the maturity to recognize you’re a good woman but still lacks the maturity to treat you like a good woman @Testorshia — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
@WisdomIsMisery I guess when you say ” I’m not good enough for you ” women hear ” help me be good enough for you” it’s a phase on both ends — Ms . Sofia (@T_ChiChi) September 25, 2013
Trust me, I don’t have any solutions to these conundrums. I cant say “walk away” because that’s not always the solution.
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
The more reasonable solution is figure out what you want, then align your actions with achieving those goals. This is easier said than done.
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
I wish I was noble enough to feel that men dating women they don’t like or see a future with is “wrong” but that’s not the case.
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
I’m coming at this objectively. 1) It doesn’t make sense; and 2) it’s a waste of both of your times. I’m not judging one’s moral character. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
As adults, I feel both parties are obligated to do what’s best for them, especially if – heaven forbid – everyone is upfront and honest. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
To me, this isn’t about “game.” Game running is a proactive activity, usually involves lying or misleading. This occurs a lot. — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
I think most men simply try to exert the least amount of effort while getting the maximum amount of return – doesn’t require game/lying — Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
[Editor’s Note: I plan to do a follow-up post on why it’s perfectly reasonable for men to be lazy – at least in the early stages of getting to know a woman.]
You just try to set the bar of expectations extremely low, which frees you to do the minimum or the maximum (but most likely the minimum).
— Wisdom Is Misery (@WisdomIsMisery) September 25, 2013
Those were some of the main Tweets from the conversation (I eventually got thrown in #TwitterJail before the conversation could officially wrap-up). What are your thoughts?
Do men read relationship advice? Why or why not? Where, if anywhere, do men get advice on relationships? Are hook-up / pick-up artists books the equivalent “relationship advice” books for men? Fellas, have you ever read a relationship book? Did you learn anything you didn’t already know?
i never cared to read game/pua books, its kinda like sabermetrics/analytics…im not trying to be efficient im just playing the game (no pun intended). I think theres a double standard when it comes to male relationship advice, women hate the idea that they can be generalized and more or less figured out but will turn around and believe steve harvey or ask chey butter got the cheat codes to make men accountable, responsible, etc.
I frequent blogs, get talks from my father, old heads, friends but i take most with a grain of salt because simply, they dont know my woman. Best “advice” i could get is from someone close to her who’s going to tell me something she won’t.
Excellent point.
Women have to come to terms that they are more similar than they are different. And give the men that same generalization.
AskCheyButter was a CHEAP SHOT. LOL Let that brother get his money!
Men will be accountable & more responsible if their is an incentive to be so.
Either you are not the right woman, or he is just dysfunctional, but he is attractive, so the suffering is worth it.
You cannot get into a healthy relationship before establishing chexual attraction & captalizing on that (Intercourse). A lot of men can’t even get an interview much less the job.
Young women (40 and under) already will get the interview based on our bio drives, so it is important for them to learn how to land the job (relationship) & get the promotion (Wife).
All those tweet above has a lot of merit. It is hard to quantify dating & mating, but with the Internet, we have come a long way.
"You cannot get into a healthy relationship before establishing chexual attraction & captalizing on that (Intercourse). "
Not always true…a good way to start a healthy relationship is w/out chex being a main component, IMO.
I think men seek relationship advice , I just don’t think they get/ seek it from 1000 ppl. A man will ask a fried , maybe write a blog or ask an old head. A woman will ask all her friends at home as work, ask 4 blogs and ask twitter , and still not be happy with an answer if it doesn’t produce the result she’s looking for . ( this doesn’t apply to every woman).
This is why so many men can come out and write relationship blogs/ books some women will read all of their ” advice” until she finds the answer that makes her happy, or advice that shadows what she’s already doing.
I think men seek relationship advice to keep the relationship they have ( think of a man going to marriage counseling ) women seek relationship advice to get the relationship they want ( think of how most relationship books are markets to women , how to get the man you want ).
Last paragraph sums it up quite well.
Pretty good summary. I agree.
My recent post In the Realtime Web, Old Can Be Awesome
Interesting I guess when you think about it men and women both read the same kind of relationship books. Men read about how to pick up women. Women read about how to make men pick them. There are a lot of good relationship books out there for men but most are geared toward men that are in established relationships or married. The 5 Languages of Love series are relationship books that men read.
I don’t think you will ever see books written by the likes of Steve Harvey and his ilk successfully marketed toward men. The number one reason is that men are very particular who they take relationship advice from. A lot of the relationship “experts” that women listen to would be called out at the barbershop so men reading a book by them are out of the question. Basically you have some women saying why don’t men listen to every Tom, Dick, and Harry like we do.
Men listen to those they respect, and generally it seems that the men who are writing these books men don't respect anyway. (from a certain standpoint) Have I read relationship books? Not at all. Nothing personally against them, but as I am learning more about myself, I learned what my lane is in life, and no book by Steve Harvey or any other "relationship expert" can show me what my lane is. A lot of what men put attention and focus into is about what works, and cutting out what doesn't.
It's hard for a relationship expert to market to men, because there's also the obvious: Generally, men don't like to be told how to run their relationship or house by somebody else, especially by somebody whose words hold no weight.
"It's hard for a relationship expert to market to men, because there's also the obvious: Generally, men don't like to be told how to run their relationship or house by somebody else, especially by somebody whose words hold no weight."
I agree with this. That's also why it's difficult to get men to go to anything that smells like a dating event. We like to make things more challenging for ourselves, which is both illogical and logical at the same time.
My recent post Part of Feeling Good is Looking Good. That’s Why I Use HeadBlade.
There's a difference between dating advice and relationship advice. Dating advice for men is more along the lines of what Wis said. How do men meet women
and get invited upstairs when the night is over? Relationship advice is for men already in the trenches. In which case, we don't want a book. We want a live person — usually a close female friend who we think is normal and rational– to interpret our significant other's actions.The one book I think men should read is The Five Love Languages. If you haven't heard of it, I did a quick write up here: https://singleblackmale.org/2012/11/29/love-la…
My recent post Part of Feeling Good is Looking Good. That’s Why I Use HeadBlade.
Agree. I have this book at home – although I admittedly just took the test then read about the language the misses and I communicate in which 1) probably shows how lazy I am; and 2) demonstrates my manliness by way of the fact that I skipped all of the details and got straight to the point I was interested in… I'm pretty sure the misses read the whole book.
Any who…
I think this book does well – I've heard it mentioned a lot by both men and women – because it's gender neutral. It focuses on how both sexes communicate and how both sexes can improve. I notice most of the books that "do well" tend to blame one sex or the other, thus validating or changing one's opinion on how they should act. Or worse, how the other sex "should" act to make their life easier. It seems most people, of both sexes, don't want to hear or even consider that maybe the biggest problem is themselves, especially since – as has been said before – *you are always the common denominator.
One of the best books from what I hear.
My recent post New friends
Women read for advice/rules
Men moreso just play as they go…
not entirely true, Men do read the Advice/Rules to see if they Apply to Them. If they don't then Play as We Go, if they do then We TRY to see the Sign(s) or marker/flag that a Woman is giving out that signifies a rule
I'll state the obvious. 1) Some of it is male socialization to not appear weak. (seeking advice is weak). Ego makes us avoid anything that looks remedial. Drunks go to rehab. The violent go to anger management. The social retards go to pickup school. 1) Some of it is this culture's attitude about seeking help around relationship (of any kind) matters. If we were offered a job that offered us more pay and allowed us to do what we really want to, but we had to take a class and be trained in how to do it, many of us would be down. But when it comes to being a better friend, parent or partner, we'd rather front and suffer in silence.
1) At the same time, a majority of relationship advice available (whether for starting or maintaining one) just SUCKS. It's a lot of work to sift through what works for yourself and your situation or what's just other people projecting their insecurities and judgments and playing to our collective human desire for easy solutions. 2) Women are socialized to have relationships as a part of their identities in ways we are not. When I turned thirty, I didn't have aunties and parents sweating me about not having kids and a spouse the way women did. Our culture still sees that domain as THEIR problem. 3)also, it has become more acceptable for men to get pick-up advice that tells them how to steer clear of the friend zone…which is a good and bad thing. It takes just one crappy book to turn us off to written advice in general.
However, there are two good ones that worked for me. For getting in relationships: Models-attracting women through honesty: Mark Manson, and maintaining one, Hold on to your N.U.T.s-Wayne Levine. Strange title, but great male-friendly advice on improving yourself and managing arguments and misunderstandings.
Also, people in general, but men in particular don't change behavior unless they 1) are not judged for the thinking that created their problems, 2) trust and respect the person giving the advice, 3) have things explained to them in ways that make sense. Very few books or gurus pass those tests.
A great resource for relationship advice. Definitely a website that worth bookmarking and revisiting. Keep up the good work.
I don't read relationship books simply because the dudes writing them are writing them to be sold, aka giving "advice" for a profit. This means whatever is in these books is being written with the idea of sales in mind. So they're gonna tell men/women what they think is going to get their books sold, no matter how unrealistic it is. And people will it it up
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