Stop asking foolish questions.
Certainly! Here’s the revised version with subheadings added to each paragraph:
**Transactional Nature of Modern Marriage**
In contemporary America, the institution of marriage has evolved into more of a pragmatic arrangement than a sacred bond. Despite ceremonial traditions in churches, marriages are often approached as contractual agreements. Consider the hypothetical concept of marriage warranties—a facetious idea that underscores the transactional nature some perceive in modern relationships.
**Factors Influencing Black Men’s Views**
For many Black men, reluctance towards marriage stems from several factors related to relationship dynamics. They cite experiences where women “fail the audition,” displaying behaviors during courtships that don’t align with long-term compatibility. There’s also a fear of settling down too soon and missing out on potentially better partners. The perceived ease of single life compared to the perceived challenges of married life further dissuades commitment.
**Prioritizing Autonomy and Personal Growth**
Many Black men prioritize personal growth and self-sufficiency, viewing marriage as potentially encumbering their autonomy and financial independence. These perspectives aren’t absolute truths but reflections of individual experiences and societal constructs. They illustrate concerns about commitment, compatibility, and the balance of personal freedoms within a partnership.
**Complex Decision-Making Process**
While some Black men aspire to marry and view it as a fulfilling goal, others weigh the benefits against potential sacrifices. It’s a complex narrative shaped by cultural norms, personal experiences, and socioeconomic factors. Understanding these relationship dynamics is crucial for navigating relationship choices effectively.
**Conclusion**
It’s about acknowledging diverse perspectives and recognizing that decisions about marriage are deeply personal, influenced by a myriad of internal and external factors. By engaging in open dialogue and mutual respect, individuals can approach relationships with clarity and understanding, regardless of whether they choose to marry or not.
Smh this is so true….I usually just lurk & don't comment but I just had to say that I agree.
I am replying to original poster and blogger here: LOl this Blog was absolutely laughable and pathetic. I am so thankful that I have never even spent my time agonizing over a BM like you. Here you are perpetuating the stereotype about black women "we are hard to deal with blah blah." OMG i am sooo bored about hearing this B. Please be more original and tell me something new. Bm like you with this sense of entitlement and feeling like you're the best thing since sliced bread make we want to vomit. I am soo glad to know that whether YOU like to know it or not YOU are the minority. Mot black men DO want to eventually get married and DO date black women. I am in a relationship with one now. And ALL my fellow sistas are all married to BLACK men. BM not wanting to get married is based on either their choice. It may not be the right time for them, they may be financially unstable, not found the right girl.
i completely agree. i also think those bw who thinks its hard to find a bm who wants to marry i think they are over looking some bm out there. bw always wants the best bm but they can’t all have the best bm. you just have to work with what’s available. and you right most blacks does date and marry each other. the bm out there who are closed from marrying they just might not be ready yet and probably be waiting on something better. some also might be experiencing economic problems and trying to get there life on track before marriage first. Im planning on getting married to my black girl soon and Im just 20 years old from Montgomery al.
Just because you and your group found happiness, that doesnt mean the same is said for others.
O………shit………
Ok, now that I've gathered my thoughts.
I'm still trying to pinpoint the exact reason I'm not married because I've dated plenty of perfectly good, wifeable women; therefore, my logical side tells me it's me, not them.
I used to believe that the right woman would come along and inspire me to want to marry her but lately I've wondered if that logic was flawed all along. In other words, should I first make the decision that I want to be married and then find the right woman as opposed to the inverse. Although, this negates the 'fairy tale' most of us have been force fed since birth since it means love is more of a logical decision than an emotional one.
Dah well, I'll keep yall posted.
Fairy tales are for women.
But yes you have it backwards. You have to want to get married first. No woman will turn on the marriage light switch for you 9.87/10 times.
"In other words, should I first make the decision that I want to be married and then find the right woman as opposed to the inverse. Although, this negates the ‘fairy tale’ most of us have been force fed since birth since it means love is more of a logical decision than an emotional one."
Good point…
I know that I'M the reason why I'm still single.
Fairy tales messed us all up…lol. I think your statement applies to women as well. When you're looking for that "perfect person", you'll never find them. Everyone will fall short in one way or another. Plus your focus is always on everyone else's short comings and not your own.
I think when you decide that you want to be a good wife/husband… your focus turns inward… on what YOU need to do to become a good wife.
As I've gotten older I've definitely had to change my perspective…
I can see what you're saying and I agree, but I do also believe that you meet a person that makes you want to be "better." Whether that means not making it rain at the club, giving the Pumpington to broads on the side or just being a douche anymore.
It goes hand in hand. You need to be open to the possibility, but someone needs to inspire you a bit.
I really wanted a woman to grow with up until my 23rd b'day… But it looks like I am on my own on the success track…
But the more valuable I become as a human being, the harder it is to want to commit to any particular woman…
awwwwwwl damn
Great post. And to be honest, I find it baffling how many woman will have a man's baby even after he's proven he has no intentions of making her his wife. But then again, everyone's jaded about marriage these days, I guess.
Just a sad state of affairs all around.
Dr. J, are we merging fatherhood and marriage together? The image kinda threw me for a loop but I agree with you CaliSlim! I'm shocked as to way, too.
Marriage just doesn't have much weight on any situation. I think some questioning should be done, so you can set the expectations. Ask questions people!
Black females are sooo damn disagreeable and didficult.. why would any man want to commit to marriage with them.. yet they lay with their legs open and become pregnant when birth control is sooo easily acquired and then fhwy get sooooo damn indignant like they had no part in this inception that they blame it all on the black male and then take him to DHS for child support when she brought this on her damn self ! Birth control is entirely on the damn female ! There is no damn need for a single female fo get pregnant when there is your local damn health department !!!
"What am I advising you to do about it? If a Black man gives you the idea that marriage is not something that he wants, don’t wait for him to come around. There are too many signs on the wall that are telling you, he’s just not the man for you. Whether it’s that he keeps blaming you for everything, or that he’s not willing to change, he’s not the man for you."
I think that these simple few words both sum up and solve a lot of women's problems. All races. Just women. And I also applaud your accountability portion. Black men, like all men, are selfish and lazy…the difference between black men and white men that I've noticed most is that one race grows out of it and takes on the social/personal responsibility of marriage and family dutifully almost…and the other doesn't.
Decent piece. I wonder how it'll be received.
I agree with YoungestMILF she is so right…. that is the only difference between black men and white men. I have a man that is responsible when it comes to our children and at the same time says that he loves me with actions that speak louder than his words that shows different because he hasn’t married me yet. When I spoke to him about my feelings on marriage he said that we can't afford it, then changed his mind the following day and said OK lets get married on a budget and that’s fine love and money goes together as one, but it is not the most important part of a marriage. We can work together and achieve those goals of financial stability… I told him look at JZ and B they tattooed their rings on and I know that they are rich but it’s the thought. I can't just be titled a babies momma anymore….. I dream of being more like someone’s a wife one day. All black women are not ghetto and superstitious for the most part we all want one thing and that is a four letter word “LOVE, true genuine love from a brother that keeps it 100%….
"…the difference between black men and white men that I’ve noticed most is that one race grows out of it and takes on the social/personal responsibility of marriage and family dutifully almost…and the other doesn’t"
Really had to make this a race issue huh? Which is funny because white women are claiming something different.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle…
This article sparked a sh*tstorm last month when it called out how white men are stuck in perpetual adolescence.
But I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side huh
Ya know, Rick…when I first read your reply "hit dog" immediately popped into my head. But I'll be perfectly honest
with you…I hate how, as a Black woman, when I voice my disdain for, or disgust with a behavior in some black men, I am immediately labeled bitter, so let me explain myself clearly for you, to hopefully alleviate what I perceived as your poor tone and defensive response.
First, shortly, I read that article. One thing that comes to mind IMMEDIATELY is the shit storm that come of it. White men, women, and those in between came from far and wide to debate, comment, discuss or dissolve its validity. There are A LOT more of those types of pieces specifically dedicated to the black male/female dynamic…that either fall on only deaf ears/eyes or yield comments from black women, doe eyed and hopeful in the wake of tragedy…or angry black women shaking their fists, upset at the reality. Rarely do we see smartblackmen, singleblackmen, fuckingblackmen, or tweetingblackmen jump on the authors of these "all black women are single and here's why" USA Today-esque spreads and DENY or DEFY any of the mess they chronicle. Or…rather, at least not *anymore*….but I digress.
Mostly what I meant is that *in my experience* with black men and white men, that is the case. And, just for clarification purposes, I am a single black mother, not with the father of my twins by choice because I am not ready for marriage. To him, or anyone else. I've said numerous times on this very blog, I am relieved I'm not marriage thirsty, nor do I feel my biological or internal clocks ticking away. I don't fear not marrying. I think I am eventually going to make someone, hopefully a black someone, a very good wife when and if that time comes. But I don't mean to attack a race…just point out my experience. Hopefully that clears things up, though. Cuz, goodness knows I didn't wanna make it a "race thing".
I completely agree…and this has everything to do with example and societal pressures. If your parents were married, you're more likely to get married. If your neighbor mows his lawn, you're more likely to mow your lawn. lol My point is monkey see, monkey do. This is a part of life. There's no question that whites have a better platform for marriage as it's more accepted in their community…even as a duty. Men don't seem to vary that much. It boils down to what they're exposed to and what path they choose to take. Growing up is a big problem in the Black community (in my opinion). Developmentally we are behind.
Very True "Developmentally we really are behind"
My recent post
You've been nice up until now?
*gulp*
<–Can't handle the pain <strike>and I wrote that before reading the rest of the post, now I'm really scared
"approach this business arrangement like a purchase: What exactly do I want to buy?, Can I afford it?, Is a newer model coming out later with features that I want?, and What is the maintenance like, or is there some type of warranty involved?"
Dang you started off deep…that's a power packed paragraph. #AlliterationFTW
That and the last paragraph sounded a lotta bit like right.
Also there is little dispute that men sacrifice a lot and take on a lot of responsibilities in marriage. I understand the hesitation. I just find so much value in marriage (true, partially due to my gender) that it's hard for me to fathom choosing the often superficial benefits of single life over the deeper, longer term benefits of family life.
(Don't want to add color… But color makes life more interesting…)
I love & appreciate a woman of your caliber to acknowledge the burden & responsibility of what men face in holding up his side of the partnership between a man & a woman…
Thank You…
Whew! I have visions in my head of Dr. J writing this in a powder blue suit, then standing up and saying "SEXUAL CHOCOLATE!" and dropping the mic.
*claps hands* "That boy good!*
Okay, in all seriousness, I always like to see what makes people tick. Most importantly among those people… me. So when someone says things about "Black Men this/that" I always look at myself and see how much I've contributed to the "this and that" they're speaking of. Usually, I'm the stereotype killer… today you pegged me. Who you been talkin' to? lol
I've never had a fear of getting married, it's the staying married part that scares me. In other words, I know when I take the plunge I want it to be for the long haul. "'Til divorce to we part" isn't exactly what I'm trying to do. And despite everyone saying, "If you're worried about divorce going into it, you're with the wrong person" the fact of the matter is the only person that I can fully know is me. I'm well aware that marriage takes work, but my fear has always been I'll be more committed to the work than my future wife. I'm sure I'm not alone on that front.
"And despite everyone saying, “If you’re worried about divorce going into it, you’re with the wrong person” the fact of the matter is the only person that I can fully know is me. I’m well aware that marriage takes work, but my fear has always been I’ll be more committed to the work than my future wife. I’m sure I’m not alone on that front."
Exactly. Times change and people change. They kill me when they act like you're supposed to KNOW how someone's going to be for the rest of their lives.
Rick, you remind me of a point I forgot to bring up…
Women keep telling me to ignore the divorce laws & family court laws…
But do you realize that… a woman can go into a marriage… & be of substance… want to be there for her man… & all the stuff that men DREAM of… and in the middle of the marriage… think about the laws that benefit her… & bounce…
I have brought that up… Well, I am bringing up again…
Yeah…they could. Or they could not…
You just probably should not get married…
hmmm why am i not married? simple. i'm selfish. not selfish in a bad way though. selfish in that i don't want to completely share my life with anoher person. i like my life the way it is right now. sure if you're in a gf/bf relationship you're still sharing your life but i doubt its to the level that marriage is. so in a nutshell i'm not married because i don't want to be. plain and simple.
will i get married? eventually. how soon? depends on your perception of soon.
good post dude.
Is there ever such a thing as selfish "in a good way"? By very definition of the word, it just isn't a good thing. I think your reason for not being married is the same reason why a lot of men aren't married and some women choose to not even be in a relationship. I'm not sure that I would call it selfish though; maybe moreso self-preserving…enjoying my life the way it is with it's ease, simplicity and ability to be controlled by me. Selfish is getting into a relationship with someone knowing that (s)he wants to be married, knowing that that's not where I am, but moving forward with things because I want to be in a relationship and saying crap like "well I warned him/her of where I was." That's my opinion at least.
self·ish
[sel-fish] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.
characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.
This definition of selfish isn't bad or good…
Where are getting "being selfish is bad" from… I don't get it…
Good post MS…
A man taught me to
"Become More Selfish, So You Can Become More Generous" – Eben Pagan
& another told me to
"Choose Your Battles Wisely" – Unknown
Marriage is a battle I REFUSE to fight…
Going to sleep on this one a little bit
I actually hear more women talk about what they won't do in a relationship as opposed to what they will do. This is in the course of casual conversation, not while out on a date…not that I go on dates anyway.
Being single is easy. It actually pays to be single. I've gotten more opportunities and been invited to events I probably wouldn't have been otherwise because I don't have a booski o'cuddles. I'm not adverse to a relationship or marriage. I just want to make sure I get it right. In the mean time, I'll keep screening. Charles Oakley.
I'd say that being married has offered way more opportunities than had I been single. Sure, if my crew of single friends is going on a mission, I may not get that call. But, I've created tons of new business contacts, been invited out to more network building dinners and established way more useful relationships as a married person than as a single person.
Also, if your wife is really great, she makes you look better, and if all of your other affairs are in order, and you're married, there is a certain level of assumed maturity people have when dealing with you. As far as upward networking is concerned, you'd be surprised at how far someone saying "my wife loved your wife" goes.
So I hear you Slim, but, having been on both sides, the invitations and opportunities I got a single dude were great, but, they don't compare to the ones you get when you have an awesome wife.
And may I reiterate the importance of the awesome in "awesome wife" – same goes for husband.
So many times when having this discussion it seems as though the assumption is that a wife/husband is > even the best single life. I personally disagree, not only in theory, but in practice. I'm looking for the awesome husband and that takes often takes time.
#SpoilerAlert That is why I, and many folks I know, aren't married yet.
THIS!
I think, married men actually get more props…it just looks better for a man when he is married….it shows that he is settled, family oriented etc….it's a good look, in general.
Although being married provide some unique opportunities, and a better perception of yourself from others… But I come from the school of
F*CK What Others Think
so, I just have to work harder to get those opportunities… Or just pass them up…
Sounds like your wife is one of the countless black women who marry down.
"Whether it’s that he keeps blaming you for everything, or that he’s not willing to change, he’s not the man for you."
This! I had so many things to say until I came across this sentence. Many of the men that we deal with is not for us. Just because he's a good guy doesn't mean he's good for us. Good post Dr.
"Just because he’s a good guy doesn’t mean he’s good for us. "
This!!!
I think this is so important for women to understand. Sometimes we tend to fall in love with the idea of who a man could be and not the man his self.
Sometime last year I was watching 60 minutes. They were doing a story about Nelson Mandela. What I found so interesting is that he is so loved and adored across the world, but ask his daughter or his ex wife about him and they have a different story to tell.
He cheated on his wife frequently, and his daughter talked about how he was never around (even before he went to jail) and how that affected their relationship.
I thought about this alot. He's obviously a great man and has done many great things in this world, despite his failures in regards to his family. I came to the conclusion that you can be a great man and still not be able to be a good partner.
Great man and not a great partner.
#nosign
He cheated on his wife several times, that's lying and deception. And it's unsafe. He wasn't there for his daugher, that's being a bad parent, but moreover than that, a bad friend. A great man would have taken care of home. We all have our faults. But a man when he makes a commitment, he follows it through. It is a reflection of his character, one of the biggest pillars of the judgment of a Man.
Even when I found out about MLK cheating on Coretta, it made me take a step back and think critically about what I wanted to take away from these people. And I think I had to walk away saying that they were men who did great things, they were also men who did bad things. But i'm still uneasy about putting the word great in front of the word, "man."
Dr. J: "Even when I found out about MLK cheating on Coretta, it made me take a step back and think critically about what I wanted to take away from these people. And I think I had to walk away saying that they were men who did great things, they were also men who did bad things. But i’m still uneasy about putting the word great in front of the word, “man.”"
Cosign. We had this similar conversation last November in Slim's "Does It Take A Man To Make A Family?" post. When you are the leader of a movement, it takes away from home. Tupac made the comment about his mother, who was a Black Panther, and said it seemed like she cared more about "the people" than she did about "her people". It often seems to be the case that when someone becomes wedded to an ideology and enforces it as a movement, their spouse and children suffer. That's a huge price to pay to be "great".
What I'm saying though is the fact that he failed in his personal life doesn't take away from his great accomplishments.
I'm sorry… but I just don't agree. A great person doesn't equal a person without faults. If thats the case then we all fall short… and none of us have the opportunity to be seen as "great".
I'm telling you right now, if Mandela have gave his wife HIV. You'd understand what i'm trying to say. As a man, at a basic level, you should have your affairs in order. His weren't. He did great things. But his affairs weren't in order.
When I think of men like Mandela and MLK, I realize that most of their energy was consumed in a cause far larger than themselves. I'm not at all surprised that their family lives weren't up to par.
As for the infidelity, a significant amount of men's (including yours truly) greatest weakness is women. It only makes sense that was their shortcoming.
I don't know that I agree with Dr. J and Hugh on this one, or maybe I do agree with them, just in a wierd way.
Before I got married, I had a rediculously hardline stace against infidelity. I thought it was the worst thing in the world and I passed judgment on people who cheated on their wives or husbands. Now that I'm married, my stance on it has softened. It's not that I think infidelity is any less wrong, it's absolutely wrong, but, now that I'm married I realize how complex a person's feelings toward someone else can be. It's easy to say 'if you make a commitment you stick to it" and I agree with that statement. But, fidelity within marriage is both really simple and really complex at the same time. It's simple in thought and theory, but very complex in execution. Just like marriage. Conceptually marriage is simple, in reality, it's super complex. I now understand how it's totally possible for a man or woman's desire to spend the rest of their life with someone can remain constant from the day they got married till the day one of them dies, but how their desire to be with other people can fluctuate dramatically during that same period of time.
So, while I don't cosign cheating at all, and try to avoid it at all costs in my life, I no longer judge men and women who fall victim to temptation the same way I did when I was on the outside looking in.
Most,
I guess I was more cosigning Dr. J's comment, "But i’m still uneasy about putting the word great in front of the word, “man.”” I don't question that MLK or Mandela were great leaders, but I'm hesitant to call anyone a "great man", outside of the Son of Man. I don't look at anyone as infallible, and everyone has bones in their closet, even our leaders.
No…I completely understand what you are trying to say and where you are coming from. I think that you do have some valid points… I just don't agree with you.
And no… I don't think that if he gave his wife HIV, that it would automatically make him a bad person. It would all depend on what he did to try and rectify the situation afterwards. He could very well start a foundation that teaches about HIV and discourages other men from cheating on their wives or having unprotected s.ex.
I'm sayin… NOBODY is perfect. I refuse to believe that because a person has done some bad things in their past or has struggled with certain ethical or moral issues , that they can't go on to acheieve greatness.
I think the issue is that we tend to deify our leaders instead of looking at them as men with vision and purpose. At the end of the day, they are still MEN. By our nature, we are all fallible.
Alot of Women like picking not marriageable men, so WTF…
Goes back to "Creating Your Own Hell"
Three songs from Bunny DeBarge's A Dream
Don't Leave – Black Street
I Aint Mad at Ya – Tupac
A Dream – Mary J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4nAnc2LIM
I was looking for the title of this song this past two weeks. Thank you for bringing it back!! And to think, I almost glossed over ur comment. 😉
This was a good read, but the last paragraph really brought the post home for me.
"…there are Black men who want everything provided for them, while putting in no work and never being told how we can be better, because that might lead to more work."
this can also be said about women, but very good point.
Serious question……
Once married, what incentive do women have to stay married? Given the current system, they can leave their man and still have access to all of his resources as if their still married via child support and alimony.
In the grand scheme of things, men don't have a real incentive to get married, and women don't any real incentives to stay married.
Well child support will come regardless of marriage.
Incentive to stay married? How about the same incentive it should take to get married… because you want to spend the rest of your life with this person.
If you only look at marriage as a business transaction then there is no hope for that union.
But if you are sooo worried about a woman taking your stuff, find a woman with assets equal or greater than yours. Win-Win!
"Well child support will come regardless of marriage. "
Doing for your child on your own accord or as needed, and being mandated to pay a certain amount of money each month isn't comparable.
^^^^ All of This ^^^^^
Thank you for saying it so I wouldn't have to.
#No-Sign…
This is a good solution for men who want to get married NOW…
But wouldn't you agree that the laws need to change…?
What incentive do women have to stay married?
Funny, i'll draw this parellel without even getting too far into it. Do you think most Christians believe in God because it will make them a better person, or because of eternal life? Two very different vantage points.
Well, with marriage, did a woman get married for all those possessions, or did she get married so that she would have a companion for life? Two different vantage points.
Nobody wants to die alone. People who think they wouldn't mind are stupid. You'll outlive your parents and grandparents, if you live long enough, you'll be one of a few of your cousins and friends who end up making it. Nieces and nephews will never consider you their real parents. So when you are on your deathbed, it will be just you. And when you die, you will be a burden to those people who have to bury you. And of course you may have some children to do that for you. But raising a child in a one-parent home, even if the other parent is still active in their life establishes a relationship with your children that it's okay to not be pressent during important stages in one's life, including death.
Let's not even go that far. The longer you wait and make the decision to stay lone, the lonelier it gets. Yes, it makes sense now in your twenties and thirties, and maybe you're able to keep it up into your forties. But as your network gets older and people get married and their priorities in life change. There's no more people to hang around. What seemed like a good decision then, won't be a good decision when you have to take the company up of twenty something year old when you're 50. And still those people will have their own lives too. If you don't think marriage and family is important, what will you do when all you have is yourself and your possessions? Everyone else will have moved on to new stages in their life and they will look at you and say, "Grow up". Either that or they will look at you and think you're pathetic.
Trust me on this, I know them. They are in my family. And while we say, "she didn't get married and she turned out okay". In reality, the majority of us know that we look at that family member and are sad that she is alone, or even that he is alone. It's just a fact.
This is true.
Yep the person that is Single for whatever reason will always be viewed as flawed and or dysfunctional of both lol!
My recent post
Women marry for love and security. Men marry out of duty and the need to be cared for (physically) i.e. food, clean home, etc. Both marry for companionship. Both will benefit. I think many marriages fall because as time passes, we are more and more selfish. There is less team and more I. We've become greedy and unable to make sacrifices where needed. Just my 2 cents.
For example, I put my daughter's needs before my own while meeting what's necessary out of my own needs…that's what makes me a good mother in my opinion. If I put my needs above her own and unwilling to sacrifice where needed…I wouldn't be a very good mother.
I think our views on what relationships really mean and what they need to work are flawed. It's not all about us.
I don't know about that…
I don't need a woman to clean or cook for me. And I probably would dead a woman if she was with me for safety. I'm so real when I say, you don't have to cook for me, I can cook better than her. If she can cook better than me, then that remains to be seen, but that's cool if she wants to think that. And cleaning, i'll either do it myself, or i'll pay someone to do it.
I knew you were going to say that. Don't take what I said literally, think broader. Maybe you can cook better than me, but I may clean better than you or vice versa. The point is, we need each other. I guarantee at some point in your life, you're going to realize that it's easier to have a partner. The same way the independent woman longs for a man. It's just better than doing it alone. Plus, you gain companionship which we ALL need. Yes, you can survive alone, life is just easier with another person who works well with you.
I guess I just don't believe in those types of gender roles as the reason why i'm getting married. Like I said, as a man my legacy is important to me and my family is an essential part of that. So in my opinion, i'm looking for a wife to be my partner in building that legacy as it pertains to a family.
@SmartFoxGirl, I don't know about this concept of any adult NEEDING another adult. That ish sounds nice in romantic comedies, but is scary in real life. Back in the day women married out of need. When they divorce she's homeless, without skills and broke. The courts step in and help with the children but she may still hardly be able to take care of herself.
I've seen it happen as a child. Eff needing another adult.
As humans we may desire romantic companionship, though it's not a need.
I know what I'm saying seems wrong but look around you. People are proving me right everyday. Women do marry for love and security. Most people marry for companionship amongst many other things. Alot of us have a fear of being alone. It shouldn't be but it is what it is. I don't need anyone. I can survive alone but society shows it's not an ideal choice.
And this is the day I thought Dr. J is alright with me!!
lol….excuse me. I just love a man that cooks.
Co-Sign…
Not quite sure how I feel about this one. Been married too long to really focus on what it takes to get married. I think it's about being young, having a lot of dreams and believing in the potential of the other person.
Thing is, if you wait too long your rose colored glasses come off and it's easier to just be by yourself. I think there's a window of time for marriage just like there's a window of time to have babies. Once that window closes, you may as well just let it go.
Thing is, if you wait too long your rose colored glasses come off and it’s easier to just be by yourself.
___________________
This is very funny and maybe very true. Eventually you look around and say, "Hey I'm single and doin just fine."
I also heard someone say if you go more than three years without sex you learn to live without it. This was actually a marriage therapist that said it.
"Thing is, if you wait too long your rose colored glasses come off and it’s easier to just be by yourself."
This is so true…lol.
My boss (who happens to be a good friend of mine) is always telling me that I need to hurry up and get married before it gets to the point where its easier for me to be alone. She got married when she was 18.
I have to admit… I had my first real boyfriend when I was 18. I remember going back and forth with him and fighting and believing in him, being patient…etc. My expectations were a LOT lower at 18…
As I've gotten older, I definitely have a much lower tolerance for arguing and working on things… being patient. I expect a lot more…
Some people I've talked to say that this is a good thing. It means that you're more aware of what you want and less willing to waste your time on someone thats not worthy. However, I'm not entirely sure that all that is actually a good thing. I kinda miss looking at things through rose colored glasses. Seems like it was easier to have faith in people then…
I still believe I'll get married one day… but I definitely need to work on my patience and tolerance in the meantime…
TRUE
Once again I see shades of the argument, "Real men get married. Marriage is for mature men." etc. etc.
I think it really bothers a lot of people that what they have been taught their entire lives about marriage might not be true.
In fact, it seems like their is a global trend in affluent countries towards staying single for life. It has now spread to asia. Japan now has the herbevour male (Google it) "Japan's twenty- and thirtysomething males seem disinterested in careers and apathetic about the rituals of dating, sex and marriage"
Could it be that mankind is evolving and realizing that marriage is outdated institution that makes no sense in a modern world.
OK…..anyone that wants to argue the counterpoint….try doing it without referencing the Bible. I'm just wondering if you could sell marriage without saying it's God's will.
This goes along with what the study was saying. I found this excerpt in particular to be enlightening
" And yet while young men's failures in life are not penalizing them in the bedroom, their sexual success may ironically, be hindering their drive to achieve in life. Don't forget your Freud: Civilization is built on blocked redirected, and channeled sexual impulse because men will work for sex. Today's authors of last year's book Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality put it, "Societies in which women have lots of autonomy and authority tend to be decidedly male-friendly relaxed, tolerant, and plenty sexy." They're right. But then try getting men to do anything."
Yeah. Good points. There is another thing people don't like accepting. That p@rn can replace a real physical sex life. I know that is blasphemy for a lot people. But there is evidence that people are choosing p@rn over real sex. Bill Mahr talked it about it on one of his shows recently.
I don't think this is saying that p@rn is better than sex. Just that it is possible to fullfill your sexual needs without a partner.
I mean, if marriage was something created by God, then you can't really have a conversation or form a counter-argument without using God. But and I think we've already agreed on this, the way that marriage has manifested itself in our society now is not the way marriage was intended. So basically you have two types of marriages. I think that when you're having these conversations about marriage people go in and out of which one they're talking about.
Can you make a case for why the instituionalism of Marriage in our world has caused it to become outdated and actually not a benefit to anyone's life? Yes. And you'll be able to back that up.
Can you make a case that based on the way God intended marriage to be that it's not a benefit to anyone's life? No, that argument would be nonsensical.
You just have to decide what your'e talking about before you start arguing with someone about two different types of marriage.
il Duce: "OK…..anyone that wants to argue the counterpoint….try doing it without referencing the Bible. I’m just wondering if you could sell marriage without saying it’s God’s will."
Marriage, viewed from a sans-religious perspective, is about familial and societal stability. It has been well established that children fare much better when they come from a two-parent household. The increase in various social pathologies in the black community, decreasing numbers of couples getting married or marrying later in life, and the increasing illegitimacy rate are not a coincidence. Family is the building block of society, and marriage, in theory, is what binds the family together.
In staying with your idea of not appealing to God's will, this shows the intersection of divine will and empiricism. We can't prove God, but we can prove that His will for our lives is beneficial to us. So this argument can be made completely ignoring God. Whether the marriage mandate actually came from God or someone just made it up, it can be empirically demonstrated that marriage is the backbone of society, and society devolves without it.
It has been well established that children fare much better when they come from a two-parent household.
_______________________
May I add….
It has been well established by a research community politically motivated and funded by the religous right that belives marriage is a holy institution.
Remember….I work in DC…home of the Political Appointee and the Think Tank.
How to Lie with Statistics [Paperback]
Darrell Huff
Darrell Huff (Author)
A best seller around these parts.
If you can't prove what you want to prove, demonstrate something else and pretend they are the same thing…
"How to Lie with Statistics", p.76
^^Required reading for all of us Beltway folks. LQL!! :0D
@ Eddie Brock
ROFL My ingga.
Try to tell people…they been Bamboozled, led astray and run amuck.
I gotta read that…
I guess I don't get your point here.
Statistics can be manipulated, but when the numbers are this high, it's hard not to start to look at root causes of these issues. The numbers can't be simply explained away.
* 63 percent of youth suicides are from fatherless homes
* 90 percent of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
* 85 percent of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes
* 80 percent of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes
* 71 percent of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes
* 75 percent of all adolescent patients in chemical-abuse centers come from fatherless homes
* 85 percent of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes
These statistics are from an article on The Root entitled "72 Percent of African-American Children Born to Unwed Mothers", who copied these numbers from the "Children: Our Ultimate Investment" website, which is a non-profit group. I don't know much about the founder, Laura Huxley, but I know her husband, Aldous Huxley, is a humanist and was into mysticism. That doesn't mean Laura Huxley necessarily was, but you'd be hard-pressed to say these statistics come from "the religious right".
This comment could be entirely off-base being I don't really understand what you were getting at with your "working in DC" comment and reference to the How to Lie with Statistics book, but even if these statistics are exaggerated by 50%, they are still outrageous and suggest doing away with the nuclear family structure has been disastrous to society.
About DC…..just saying there are people who get paid high salaries to churn out statistical data to support poltical ideolgies and give their beliefs credibility.
Presidents appoint the leaders of federal agencies and they in turn have billions of dollars of resources at their disposal. Enough to change the national dialogue on any issue. That's how you get people to start using words like clean coal.
The Root….don't get me started on the Black Ivy Leage Intelligencia. That site is run by Henry "Every Black Man is Half White" Gates. Have you seen this guys DNA speacials?
But anyway….I could flip those stats you listed to show the root cause is poverty or instintutional racisim. Not lack of father's. But that wouldn't serve the agenda of the people that compile those stats.
il Duce: "About DC…..just saying there are people who get paid high salaries to churn out statistical data to support poltical ideolgies and give their beliefs credibility."
Understood.
"The Root….don’t get me started on the Black Ivy Leage Intelligencia. That site is run by Henry “Every Black Man is Half White” Gates. Have you seen this guys DNA speacials?
It wasn't Henry Gates that compiled the statistics. It was an organization founded by the wife of a man who was a well-known hedonist. It can hardly be classified as "religious right", or even religious.
"But anyway….I could flip those stats you listed to show the root cause is poverty or instintutional racisim. Not lack of father’s. But that wouldn’t serve the agenda of the people that compile those stats."
Not sure how, when the stats specifically address "fatherless homes". I don't know if they also controlled for income or race, but at the same time, you can't assume they didn't, and have to make the assumption that the statistics are what they say. You can't just twist them around or assumed it can mean other things, unless you're providing your own statistics or have some kind of proof that they erred in compliling their stats.
I agree with il Duce on the stats
For example the stat "63% percent of youth suicides are from fatherless homes" is not an indication that fatherless homes is a factor in youth suicides.
I would like to see the stat on how many fatherless homes result in youth suicides as well as the stat on the homes with fathers. This would be telling me more.
Numbers dont lie but you can use them to tell whatever story you want them to.
Kema: "I would like to see the stat on how many fatherless homes result in youth suicides as well as the stat on the homes with fathers. This would be telling me more.
You have that stat. It's 37% of youth suicides (100-63). If it's not a fatherless home, it's a home with a father.
I guess this is more directed towards il Duce: if I can't use "God's will", and can't use statistics compiled from research by an organization with no dog in this hunt, what exactly can I use to "argue the counterpoint"?
Hugh,
What he's doing is he's controlling the debate by constantly changing the scope. He's telling you to respond to him and then telling you that your argument isn't valid use another one. You're never going to convince this guy any different because he's refuted several logical arguments for marriage. Using God, or a higher power, or not. He stands against it and sees anyone who believe in marriage to be absolutely wrong. The best thing for you to do would be to get out of the debate. The great thing about debate is that neither of the people in the debate get to pick the right answer or not. Just be confident in your argument and walk away.
And this is no shots at Duce, it's a great strategy for debate. I'm just trying to let you know, it's not going anywhere with this guy ever on this topic.
It's not that I'm totally against stats and numbers. But when it come to socialogical issues….people almost always have an agenda.
I'm never convinced by stats alone.
I just disagree with the premise that missing father's are root cause of all problems.
People with a right wing agenda have been pushing this theory for a long time because its a convenient way to explain away institutional racism.
Your not in jail becuase your black and the crack cocain laws are biased. You're in jail cause you didn't have a father.
Lack of father's is part of the problem. But there is a lot more to it.
@Hugh… Thats not what I was asking.
37% is the percentage of youth suicides that are from homes with fathers. What I said was what percentage of homes with fathers have youth suicides as opposed to those without.
Not the same…
I am not saying children do not need fathers. I was just trying to say that numbers can help you prove your point when you want them too. Believe me I work for an insurance company!!
Dr. J: "You’re never going to convince this guy any different because he’s refuted several logical arguments for marriage. Using God, or a higher power, or not. He stands against it and sees anyone who believe in marriage to be absolutely wrong."
I wasn't really trying to debate, I just wanted to present a logically sound case in the confines of how he posed the question, which excluded Biblical reasons. Of course, if I did want to debate, I could have just flipped the script and made him make a logical and empirical case that marriage is outdated, and questioned any statistics or studies used, but I just wanted to present the pro-marriage case.
il Duce: "It’s not that I’m totally against stats and numbers. But when it come to socialogical issues….people almost always have an agenda."
That's understandable, but people have an agenda in practically everything. The beauty of the stats I provided is although I got it from Henry Gates' site, he got it from a site that is not right wing. When two sides that are diametrically opposed ideologically can agree on the stats, we can start filtering out the bias. Causation isn't correlation (I hate that phrase because it's overused, and usually improperly), but such a high degree of correlation suggests it's a very good place to start looking for causation.
Marriage has always been an arangement its only recently and due to Western influence that most appproach marriage as a union. Marriage should be considered both a business deal first and a union to be better effective.
I will say as a feminist I wholeheartedly feel the sexual revolution a.k.a "liberation" has set women back a great deal. It has been taken entirely out of context and out of hand. There was a reason why women were supposed to remain chaste or atleast discreet in their sexual experiences. Like we say you can't backtrack with men when it comes to sex. I feel this study http://blackmenconfrontingthelies.blogspot.com/ says it all.
As for men, they're just having their cake and eating it too. *shrug* If I were a man I would most likely do the same.
Thanks for the BLOG… Thank You
This is a great post and hammers home the point of accountability. We all need to be accountable for what goes right AND wrong.
I don't believe in the fairytale life but I believe in perseverance and being true to self. As long as I do that I'll be OK
I believe in Perseverance along with Manhood, Scholarship, and Uplift. #BasementLearning
George Clooney says "Sell me marriage."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeEUy_Kv2bM
George Clooney didn't say that, a character in a movie said that. And George Clooney is a convincing actor. That's his job. Your job is to be able to smell bullsh*t a mile away. And don't take fiction and let it be the rubric for how you live your life.
You do realize George Clooney is a sworn bachelor.
But anyway. Yeah I've been on movie sets. In the trailers. Eaten from the catering carts. Gone to the studio to loop sound.
Yeah I know the differnce between movies and real life.
I gotta admit, your paragraph on MOST Black women failing to be marriage material made me angry. One for the generalization and two because it seemed like you were going to place the blame on the women as to why marriage is lacking in the Black community. Then the rest of your post flowed in another direction with you summing up alot of my thoughts on this issue.
I felt like these reasons were missing:
*Lack of good example
*Lack of know how
*Lack of leadership qualities
I feel these problems plague many Black men today. I look at life as something within our control. If you aren't getting married, then it's on YOU and not everyone else. Same goes for my situation. I'm not married and it's on me for spending time with the wrong person for me. I cannot get with people who constantly blame others for their downfalls. That's weak. The only way we can improve ourselves is to look within at who we are and what we're getting out of life.
Marriage isn't for everyone and that's fine….just be honest with yourself on your reasons for avoiding it. Aint sh*t women? Aint sh*t mama? Aint sh*t daddy? There's a fine line between something not being your taste and something leaving a bad taste in your mouth. If you had bad experiences, of course that's going to taint what you want in life. That's not the next person's problem, that's your problem.
And the reasons why people have babies before marriage or shack up before marriage is because we're ALL fcuking. We want consistent s.ex and many of us don't use condoms. Most of us don't plan babies like most of us don't plan on getting AIDS from raw s.ex. Babies are a blessing, AIDS is a disease…I don't want to confuse the two. At the end of the day, most of us our guilty of raw chexing before marriage.
I think my point is, whether you want marriage or not, at some point we're all going to have to deal with our problems and whatever reasons we have for avoiding the alter. Unions make for a better life whether legal or not.
I was listening to Michael Baisden yesterday and thinking "When did not having a father become the excuse for everything black people do?"
And the only people not blamin their father's are the people without father's.
They were blaming girls taking sexy bathroom pictures on lack of fathers. I'm thinkin "Really?" I think kids are stupid is the real answer. I know plenty of hos with from two parent households. LOL
Lack of good parental figures is a HUGE problem in all races whether Black, White, etc. Any psychologist will tell you that childhood determines adulthood. There are a bunch of studies that support this theory. Plus we are creatures that do by example. People aren't just born stupid (well most of us anyway lol). What children do most of time reflects what's not being done by their parents. You can argue with me but the facts remain. Is that the case all of the time? No, some people just make bad choices despite having good examples. It's not a black and white thing, there's alot of grey.
My point is, at the end of the day…YOU are in control of your life. You have to deal with your own issues no matter what they are. Unfortunately, many of us lack the ability to even recognize their issues, let alone deal with them. We're in a finger pointing society.
I just want to reiterate that
Most Black Women Suck…
Even though it is an opinion… It is pretty accurate from BM's perspective (you know, the ones you want the RING from…)
This would probably go for BM as well, but BM are not complaining about not being married the way BW are…
It is what it is… I just want y'all to be better…
Don't look at what WW or BM are doing… If you want to get a ring… the first thing to increase your chances, is be a better human being…
More thoughts on that later…
You started off making some generalizations here about Black women that offended me. However, the headline was a generalization about Black men as well so what else could I expect?
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I disagree that most Black men don't want to get married. I believe this varies by city, state, etc. Of all the men I know (I reside in the DC metro area), I'm struggle to name those who are not married (and these are not guys I know by way of their wives). These are friends from college, work, etc. – all Black and married.
"the biggest weakness with single Black men is their sense of entitlement and lack of accountability for everything in their environment."
Good point; So goes the saying, "every time you point a finger, three point back at you." And that goes for men AND women.
LOL… @ "Offended Me"
Insults Are TAKEN, Not GIVEN…
http://thisisindexed.com/2011/03/just-pick-one/
SURPRISING GOOD "MARRIAGE" POST!
Dr. JayJack, I have to say that this post and your comments here are your 81-point game. You are in rare form today. Kudos.
Hey Jay…here is a quote about marriage from a real person, not the actor, Charlie Sheen
"They lay down with their ugly wives in front of their ugly children and look at their loser lives"
Single men blow money, sniff c@ke and ufck porn stars. Single men are winning! ROFL
Hey Jay…here is a quote about marriage from a real person, not the actor, Charlie Sheen
“They lay down with their ugly wives in front of their ugly children and look at their loser lives”
Single men blow money, sniff c@ke and ufck p@rn stars. Single men are winning! ROFL
Really…Charlie Sheen?
He's a great role model. He's always winning!
In the words of Charlie Sheen, "What kind of car are you driving? What women are sleeping with?"
He's not bi-polar…..He's bi-winning. ROFL
I usually read and never contribute a comment.
So happy I read this to the end. Very good post.
I used to comment alot. I dont because I am busy.
But I think this post was cursory at best, lazy at worst. I think you touched on the same sh!t we've heard for the last year or so. This was not insightful nor did it express any new ideas or viewpoints. You're merely rehashing the same stuff we've been talking about for months. I could of sworn that TMIMW did a guest post on this in like January.
The thing is that if you were a sh!tty writer I wouldnt say anything, it would be another blog post that didnt make it out of my Google Reader. However, because you usually write at such a high level, I gotta call you on your duds.
You're bugging. If you're really busy then you probably mixed something up in the mix because your comment was far from the truth. 1) The guest post that Most wrote on this site, I wrote it with him and it had nothing to do with why Black men don't want to get married, and the post was last year in July. Most didn't write another post on this site until two weeks ago. 2) We haven't been talking about the same stuff for months, because you haven't been on the site in months, as you just said. Aside, I started talking about this weeks ago and was careful not repeat any of my points during my series. 3) I don't know if none of these reasons were new to you, that's cool, what have you, but realize that you've been reading this site for a long time … there are new readers to SBM every month, maybe someone hasn't heard those points before. And to me, those were points that I never see said directly to women that I thought needed to be said. Next time you read a post where a man tells a woman straight up that she doesn't give him a reason to want to be with her, doesn't see the benefit in not staying single when it's hard work being married, or that as a Black man we have limitless options … do me a favor and link me.
You don't like the post, that's fine. But next time, miss me with a comment about how the post was wack and keep it on wax .. address the points or just stop reading. But this also reminds me of when they smashed Snoop Dogg's CDs in Times Square… Thanks for reading the article, even if you threw it out the window. You still read it and that was the point.
I made not have made myself clear in my post, which is most likely my fault. Let me clarify for you. 1) I've never definitively said that Most wrote anything, I said that I believed he did. 2) The "we" didnt refer to this site alone. It referred to the larger societal context. So regarding the macro conversation about this topic, you didnt add anything new. 3) "Next time you read a post where a man tells a woman straight up that she doesn't give him a reason to want to be with her, doesn't see the benefit in not staying single when it's hard work being married, or that as a Black man we have limitless options … do me a favor and link me." – Is this regarding just this site or on the internets in general?
You don't like the post, that's fine. But next time, miss me with a comment about how the post was wack and keep it on wax .. address the points or just stop reading. – This would be completely counter-intuitive. My point was that this post was wack because it added nothing new to the conversation. I think that implicitly shows that the points are valid. I'm not denying that your points are valid, I just think they are become antiquated.
You still read it and that was the point. – I read every post that yall write, I just dont have the time to comment on everyone.
Awww I really enjoyed this! I truly think it is a topic that cant be written about enough. Many people in the black community just dont get it, understand it or accept it. Its nice to know that Dr. J, mentioned how black men should be responsible and take ownership.
In fact, he conveyed the message that black men AND women should take ownership.
I couldnt agree more.
I think my biggest problem about not being married is I have yet to date a woman my age that does not have children. I am 33 and have no children but all the women I have ever dated had them so I am a bit skeptical about a pre-mad family!!!
I'm sure there were plenty of women your age that were childless when you were 24.
You know what there were women at that age that did not have children but I decided to extend my education and now that I am 90% finished I have time and resources for a family but the availability of black women without kids now are slim.
I feel that because I chose to not be a "babies daddy" and become a doc all I have to chose from are women who had a good time early in life and are now ready to settle down with someone secure or date outside of my race with women that are not black… which is something that I -do not- will not do…
^^^THISSSSSSSSS
You really can't find black women in their late twenties, early thirties who don't have kids? Really?
Where are you looking? Were there no black women in school with you? Or they all had kids?
Sorry dude, as a black woman no kids who knows many more young women without kids than with, I'm having a hard time believing this.
Now, back to lurkdom…..
It is rare to find a women with no kids after 30.
I feel you on the hesitancy…..some dudes love to step into that role….but I am very hesitant.
@ IL DUCE and IL NOISE- I used to think that way. What really matters is 1) how many kids (can't do more than 2 myself), and 2) do those kids get a healthy balance of love and limits? You do wanna know what kind of parent she is and would be…if marriage is your concern. Times have changed. Blended/Reconstituted/whatever families are not the anomaly they once were eons ago.
I agree with "AA". This may be a matter of the state/city in which you're living. Myself and all of my girlfriends are in our early 30s (31-33) with no children. We too have been working on life and education.
As a 29 year old black woman, college educated, no kids, independent. I am not sure where you are looking. but there are plenty women like me out there. Although I am currently in a relationship, with BM also never married no kids and educated. however, I believe if u looked hard enough u would find plenty single black women in their late twenties with no kids.
IL-NOISE,
pre-made families are awesome and can work but everyone has to be invested.
Im actually a sucker for hearing success stories of families especially black families/ marriages that have made it work with multiple children and past relationships.
🙂
This quote can only come from a woman… Ready Made Family are NOT the ideal for men…
http://generation-x.net/members/viewVideo.php?vid…
Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. I think we, black folk, are becoming a culture with an "anti-marriage" agenda, spearheaded by single, successful black men. As our community continues to de-evolve and degenirate, black men think they are winning by shunning the ultimate responsibilty. Not just thinking about and caring for yourself, but actually being a leader for those who matter most. Not your frat brothas, but to women and children who love you, and want you, and are waiting for you to step it up.
I choose singledom and sexlessness because I don't want a 32 year old boyfriend. A man-child taking his cues from Hank Moody. So, I date, test the waters, and if he's not saying anything I want to hear, I'm done. I maybe the only woman amongst my friends who doesn't mind being single. Which also means, I'm the only one of us who hasn't spent a considerable amount of time with an "ain't sh*t" dude.
Also, I think our priorities have become increasingly more superficial. When you ask a person what they look for in a mate, integrity, honesty, trustworthiness, loyalty, kindness, loving, things that point to character, are not at the top of the list. People want a pretty face, 5'10 and above, and a great resume. A good resume does not make a good (wo)man, and definitely not a good partner. In honesty, if we can't say the person you're dating is a good person, why are you dating him?
My thoughts are all over the place today, and I have so much work, I shouldn't even be commenting. But I had a word, so I had to say it. lol. Now, back to work.
"I choose singledom and sexlessness because I don't want a 32 year old boyfriend. A man-child taking his cues from Hank Moody. So, I date, test the waters, and if he's not saying anything I want to hear, I'm done. I maybe the only woman amongst my friends who doesn't mind being single. Which also means, I'm the only one of us who hasn't spent a considerable amount of time with an "ain't sh*t" dude."
http://bit.ly/f1u5cA
That's me in the blazer. Go on and SAY THAT, I don't think they heard you.
lol at Starita always coming through with the .gif that's relevant. I just had to walk away from my desk.
*fist pumps* Success!!
Every time a person gets written up by HR a .gif gets it's wings…
😉
Man! I have to wait to see it… blocked on my end. lol!
Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. I think we, black folk, are becoming a culture with an “anti-marriage” agenda, spearheaded by single, successful black men. As our community continues to de-evolve and degenirate, black men think they are winning by shunning the ultimate responsibilty. Not just thinking about and caring for yourself, but actually being a leader for those who matter most. Not your frat brothas, but to women and children who love you, and want you, and are waiting for you to step it up.
I love the rest of this post… but this part irks me a little…
"Women want the PRIVILEGE of women, the POWER of men, and the RESPONSIBILITY of neither"
There is no incentive to being a leader in the BC… It is better to just go get a white girl & say F*ck it…
I hope you find your husband & FAST… I like the stance you take…
Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. I think we, black folk, are becoming a culture with an “anti-marriage” agenda, spearheaded by single, successful black men. As our community continues to de-evolve and degenirate, black men think they are winning by shunning the ultimate responsibilty. Not just thinking about and caring for yourself, but actually being a leader for those who matter most. Not your frat brothas, but to women and children who love you, and want you, and are waiting for you to step it up.
_________________________
Great points. I will say that I think it is also a result of our society in general. I think what we will see in the next hundred years is capitalis societies destroy themselves with hyper-capitalism. It explains what is happening here and in Japan.
The cost of living is so high….and salaries are so low that men have given up on the family.
50 years ago you could by a home for $50,000, pay it off in 30 years or less and put the kids through college. Now you are lucky if you pay your house off before you die….college is $60000. You got a cell phone, cable, alarm, internet and private school bills that you didn't have 50 years ago. Kids are becoming a luxury of the wealthy.
Notice that when we're discussing men and opposition to SOME form of commitment, we hardly ever mention the notion of romantic disappointment, broken hearts, etc? It's always approached with the lack of accountability or extreme realism vintage points. Tons of people will go their whole lives not cheating of a soul, only to wreck their marriage by infidelity. You are NOT protected.
For me, marriage is synonymous to 'lifelong commitment.' So a ceremony or signing papers is easy to do or not do. If ol' girl feels she needs that, fine. The hard part is actively making the commitment, not the ceremony. I know Dr. J, you wasn't talking about ceremonies. Though if you want to make a commitment, you have to actually demonstrate it, not just say it. And the the standards of demonstration is 100% up to the individuals involved.
–Side note —
The argument of "why get married" should be abstracted to "why attempt at a lifelong commitment." Why? We all have different belief systems and it screams foolishness to assert that there exists an underlying need of a Christian-based institution as the cure-all for all these aliments of the Black Community. For me, that starts an alarm especially since we all know our history. No offense to Christians, just saying there's a reoccurring theme of 'let's apply the Christian cure-all.' Again, just saying…
— end side note —
I'm not Christian, though I wouldn't mind getting married IF my lady's belief system required her to do so. Hugh would say, "I don't recommend it." Now let me explain this. Many people would see it as not #winning. In my mind, "marriage" means 'lifelong commitment.' It doesn't have a Christian spin on it or anything. I borrow some of the terminology because it makes conversations easier since saying "I don't want to get married" will automatically have people assert that you're against making a lifelong commitment. Likewise, to me, a husband is a man who actively shares a lifelong commitment with another person. Some people have sticks while others have paddles in the same room apparently. But it's funny how my definitions sound so matter-of-factual, that's not my intent.
With that said, I'm NOT "marrying" any woman who's reason for a lifelong commitment with me is because it's the 'natural progression of things' or 'she needs me' or 'it's God's Will' or even 'It'll help ' I deserve much more than that. My attempt at a lifelong commitment is worth more than that. My reason for entering a relationship with one woman cannot be applied to the next or someone before her. The reason of any commitment should be specific to the people involved.
Oh that's given? No it's not. The notion of marriage implying leadership and responsibility is ridic. Especially since most of our (male) leaders turn out to be sucky husbands (according to the wives) or fathers (according to the children) or both. Let's use a another metric. At the very least, re-examine the institution of marriage to MAKE it relevant in today's terms, rather than trying to fit a square peg into a triangle slot. That's only because majority of the black community seem to be Christian. It doesn't affect me and my beliefs…
Commitment is what's important. Not so much the stigma of marriage. And romantic commitment cannot be enforced by the state.
oops. The last reason for not marrying someone was: "It'll help the black community"
LOL
Yes this is a topic that is rarely done.
Broken hearts and baggage that men have.
But then again I think men are pretty open about it….it just comes out a lot meaner when we talk about it.
"With that said, I’m NOT “marrying” any woman who’s reason for a lifelong commitment with me is because it’s the ‘natural progression of things’ or ‘she needs me’ or ‘it’s God’s Will’ or even ‘It’ll help ‘ I deserve much more than that. My attempt at a lifelong commitment is worth more than that."
As a man, I wanna get married too, but not for those reasons.
Interesting article, my one beef is this, one of the points is that you comment that most black women fail the audition. My first question would be to ask what kind of women are you associating with to come up with this assessment that most black women are failing the audition? and what is the criteria for these failed auditions besides her power sign qualification? I stand corrected, if I am wrong but it sounds to me like you are talking about "around the way girls" and not business/ career women who have goals and ambitions becasue if you are talking about them I bet there are more black men failing the audition than black women (Not saying some career women don't have issues, but more times than not, they are not interested in the B.S. and are not interested in wasting their time with B.S. Artists) . A guy I went on a date with complained about black women and bragged about his degree and intelligence, I found out later about this College Man/Radio Talk Show Host is that all he dated were women he deemed "beneath" him (strippers, hoodrats) he did not date women who were educated or in that direction becasue he knew that they would not put up with his B.S. and that is why I did not continue to date him. And why are you using the reference "audition" in dealing with women?? Is the role for a potential wife, partner, or video vixen?
My first question would be to ask what kind of women are you associating with to come up with this assessment that most black women are failing the audition? and what is the criteria for these failed auditions besides her power sign qualification?
Not sure if this was directed to the author or everyone, but I have some input. Dr. J probably wasn't saying that a person's sign determines if he "wifes" her. He was probably saying that many women use their astrological sign as an excuse for certain things that will clearly get you eliminated as a potential mate.
And why are you using the reference “audition” in dealing with women?? Is the role for a potential wife, partner, or video vixen?
I, for one, take the "get in where you fit in" approach. We hang out and from our interactions determine what role I would prefer you in. And those decisions take time…
MEN also use B.S. to justify poor behavior as well so please that is just as bad as black women saying "well Im a Libra so….".
This portion of the "audition" comment he stated:
They will tell you all these things that they are willing to do when in a relationship, but they don’t want to put a resume on the table or list references. Wait, I’m feeling myself, repeat, they will tell you all these things that they are willing to do when in a relationship, but they don’t want to put a resume on the table or list references. And lastly, I shouldn’t have to say this, but how many times is it that a woman claims a bed game that isn’t true."
How many brothas have a truthful resume on the table with valid references or do they think all they have to provide is a big "johnson" and some "swagger" as qualifications for manhood??? The problem is many brothas want from women what they are not willing to provide themselves (and vice versa) you want a resume?? you better have yours ready as well. This is not a one sided endeavor, just like you , him or any other guy that is "deciding" what category you want to put us in, we have the right to deicde if you are worth our time as well. My mentor always told me when you interview for a job, you also interview your potential employer to decide if that is the kind of company you want to work for; never approach an interview from a place of desparation.
Two ways to look at what I said about resumes…
I show women who I am when I date them. They know me. They are not given a list of a stuff that will come after we're in a relationship. So therefore, i'm willing to "intern" for the job I want.
However, I have a wonderful resume. And I don't mind putting it out there, but I don't have to because my actions speak louder than my words. I haven't had the opportunity to call a woman my girlfriend and now after that relationship is over she has bad things to say about me.
But again, I repeat it was more about when women claim a list of thing they're willing to do for their man once they're in the relationship.
MEN also use B.S. to justify poor behavior as well so please that is just as bad as black women saying “well Im a Libra so….”.
Ok… And equally, they suck at life…
Your last paragraph makes sense. Though, no one is implying one-sidedness here. I'm not sure what you read, but nothing in his post said this doesn't apply in some way to men. In fact, he stated the lack of accountability and sense of entitlement many guys seem to have as a problem.
Betty,
It's really interesting when people say what type of women are you associating yourself with when most of the Black women are failing the audition. The reason is because I have dated all types of women from all walks of life. When I say that most Black women are failing, i'm basing that off some logical facts. Most Black women are not married. Most Black men who do marry, do not date only one woman and decide to marry her. He auditions several women and selects the best candidate. If he's auditioned more than two for the position. That means most of them failed. Now when you point of that you'd assume that these women are hoodrats, i'd actually beg to differ with you. In my experience, women who are not as educated, or haven't experienced as much career success, are easier for men to handle. Those women actually make it a point in their life to get married. To find someone to take care of them because they're pretty sure they know where their current circumstances will take them. Meanwhile, the more educated sister is at another vantage point. She doesn't need a man. Desperation leads to a different perspective. And as for what are was the criteria for a failed audition; for me it was simple, I have no interest in pursuing any type of substantial relationship with you.
My personal top reasons for not wanting to date a sister haven't really changed;
stubborness – a woman who won't listen, thinks she has it all figured out despite a lack of evidence that she does, doesn't want to grow, or sees a relationship as a competition or war … every conversation leads into this feeling of "someone's got to win",
lack of womanhood – they don't know how to talk to people, they have bad manners, they don't know how to cater to a man, they take the easy way out, they lack sexual tact (you don't have to be a saint, but your business shouldn't be on the streets),
resilience – (THIS IS MESSED UP, BUT I'M HONEST) if I get the feeling that it's going to go downhill for you after you have kids or get married i'm immediately turned off and I make this decision by looking at the decisions that a person makes in their life and how they follow through on the things they want to do … I secretly judge women who I can convince to go to happy hour over going to the gym when you've set a goal to lose weight but months later nothing's been doing about it, I also judge women based on their eating habits, i'm terrified of things like high cholestorol, cancer, diabetes, and heart disease, then I judge them based on their spending habits, honestly, I can't envision having you as a girlfriend or a wife if you don't know how to manage money effectively, or make foolish purchases, everyone has their weaknesses but it's important that the women I date understand those are their weaknesses and I don't have to put up with them.
Does this answer your question about criteria?
And as for the reference of audition, that was just an analogy. It was for creative purposes only.
Based on your explanation of what it means to fail an audition, isnt it a logical deduction that most PEOPLE fail the audition?
I thought the post was wack.
And yes, you're right most people fail the audition. That's why most people are single.
I think this is a point where you could have leveraged the commonalities of the sexes a bit more to make your later points a bit more compelling and persuasive.
You mentioned points where the sexes were similar later in the piece, but the placement, framing and phrasing of this particular paragraph, IMHO, severely limited the effectiveness of the following two paragraphs
I don't care if the woman is educated, or not educated…
Most BW fail the audition…
It is what it is…
I know this is a hard pill for BW to swallow, but if some of y'all wanna get married, *puts a mirror on the table*, there is some evolution that needs to take place…
Kema: "37% is the percentage of youth suicides that are from homes with fathers. What I said was what percentage of homes with fathers have youth suicides as opposed to those without.
Not the same…"
You're right. Most youth suicides are from fatherless homes, but it doesn't give the total percentage of each.
I was actually carefully reading to make sure that wasn't what you were saying when I first replied your comment, and still misread it. Let me sit in the corner with my dunce cap on!
After reading a bunch of the comments, I think a woman asking, in the words of Richard Bey, "where do you find these women?" is an appropriate question.
But I do think that many of the issue that people have with their dating pool is based on location as well. In NYC, Chitown, ATL, DC and some other places, generally the dudes (at least the ones i know) dont complain about the inability to find a chick. I know girls who are more than willing to cook, clean, dougie, lick grundle, date a woman and keep her corporate law job. But I'd like to credit that to where I am located.
Ultimately, to respond to the merits of the post as Dr. J, requested, I'd agree that these are three of the top reasons that men dont wanna get married, but this by no means captures it all (nor does it add much to the discussion as well). However, I caution women to be careful in applying this to every man they meet that doesnt want to get married.
Women often forget that men are individuals and have their own reasoning for the things that they do.
Good Post Dr. J
I gotta lot to say about the Black Man & Marriage Sh*t
(No, I am not angry Beef Bacon… I just like to curse…)
Give Me A Moment…
good post Dr. J.
i'd have to say that yes, i would like to get married. but seeing what i see…on twitter, on the blogs, in real life…
i'm really not impressed. and i'm not some big shot, i'm small potatoes, probably a 4 or a 5 until i make big time money, or do big time things, but i'm not seeing many options, irregardless of what everyone else says…
i guess, what i'm trying to say is that as much as the message is put out that men have their choices of who to get with, who to marry, yadda yadda, it's really not as easy as it sounds. and maybe, in my case, it's more of a matter of the women i'm attracted to, not being attracted to me, and vice versa.
but good post, great comments.
I will address your points first…
Most Black Women Fail the Audition Miserably
THANK YOU!!!, To recap that…
– Overweight
– Attitudinal
– Kids OOW
– Lack of Respect For BM…
– Or just plain Immature & Selfish…
As a man who is aspiring to be SUCCESSFUL & to have my pick of the litter of WOMEN… If you have any of these things going for you… Why would I even CONSIDER giving you a ring (I'm waiting for a coherent answer… *Crickets*)
You never know when you might find something better
I kinda co-sign… You will always find something better if you are looking for it… That can be never-ending…
Marriage is hard work, single life is easy going and free
I don't know if the single life is easy going & free… I can tell you that not having responsibilities is WAVY… whether it is kids, girlfriend, bills, etc… I am a low maintenance NEGRO… So I don't need a lot out of life… If it weren't other people that can use my services (personal, relationship or business-wise)… I would just have p*rn & pizza attached to my tombstone & nothing else…
This does not hold true for all Black men. There are Black men who do want to get married.
I want ALOT out of life, Marriage isn't one of them… It doesn't fit into the kinda life that I want for myself…
Bringing me to my next point; the biggest weakness with single Black men is their sense of entitlement and lack of accountability for everything in their environment.
Very TRUE
I feel entitled, because as a "Good Black Man" (whatever that means), I am considered RARE & VALUABLE… So I take advantage of that… If I was a (Black) Woman, and I wanted to attract a man of my kind… I would bring my A-Game… Most (Black) Women don't…
I like to take responsibility for everything that happens to me, even if it wasn't my fault… Life is easier to deal with when you are PROACTIVE…
If a Black man gives you the idea that marriage is not something that he wants, don’t wait for him to come around. There are too many signs on the wall that are telling you, he’s just not the man for you. Whether it’s that he keeps blaming you for everything, or that he’s not willing to change, he’s not the man for you.
Thank You… But women love the dudes who not marriage material… Or who are not on the marriage tip… so situations like this will keep perpetuating itself…
Good Post… More On The Way
Wow. lol Adonis, dude, what the hell? Are you really calling out Black women for being overweight, attitudinal, etc.? I mean, I could just be misreading that. You seem reasonably intelligent (and I see you've read some PUA material) so I would think you wouldn't just blatantly leave yourself open for such an easy rebuttal.
I am waiting for this "easy rebuttal" you speak of…
I am a PUA aficionado… Glad you recognize… I hope that is working out well for you…
So you're implying that no other race of women have any of your bulleted issues?
http://www.thisisyourconscience.com/2011/03/why-black-me...
What does @TWIsM81 stand for… BTW…
Last time I check bro, BW are my first choice in LTR… So I could care LESS what other races are doing or whether they have BW's problems…
Just to bring you up to speed
RightCoastLexSteele wrote a post two and a half weeks ago… just add in the SBM website
2011/03/03/are-white-women-really-that-easy/
I guess I'm slightly confused by your response(s). In your original post (again please correct me if I'm mistaken) it seems you're calling out [only] Black women for being overweight, attitudinal, having children out of wedlock, and so on. The easy rebuttal that I mentioned was the "are you implying no other race…" reply. You then told me you prefer Black women first for a LTR, but then in the same sentence say you don't care if other races of women have "BW's problems."
So you originally go on the offensive against Black women, then say you prefer them and then (in the very same sentence) bash them again. I hoping you can kind of see where I may be a little confused.
Now, I've gone out with women of many ethnicities and I can tell you there are many more similarities among personality types than there are along races. For each of the traits you listed I could name at least 20+ women who don't have an ounce of Black in them that embody them. I can't even cosign that there are more BW with those issues than Hispanic, Filipino, or any other minority woman born and raised in America. Believe it or not, this isn't meant as an attack. Just a matter of discussion (which I guess is the whole purpose of the blogosphere in general).
To answer your questions: 1) Never really got down with the PUA community. I was introduced to it all by a former roommate of mine in Phoenix, which just so happened to be during the time Mystery was filming the 1st season of his show out there.
2) If knowledge is power… then "The World Is Mine" (TWIsM).
Oh, hi, –> http://bit.ly/fGG4Gx
Can I give some unsolicited advice? –> http://youtu.be/UGobXsmPx78
But kudos for trying…
Love you @Starita
Even though I'm:
– Overweight
– Attitudinal
– Just plain emotional & lazy?
Being that I don't have to date you… I am cool with all of those shortcomings…
Love you @Starita
if marriage isn't one of the things on your list…
why worry about black women being 'marriage material'?
*scratches head*
Because if I decide to have a BW in a LTR, having marriageable qualities MATTER…
I hate the marriage license… But I am pro-relationship
i dunno man…
i mean, it sounds like you want someone thats.."more pure" than you…some time down the road…
but going from your posts, it doesn't seem you'd put yourself on a path to where a woman (that fits the qualities you seek) would find you (overall) attractive…down the road.
Peter, I hear you, I really do…
Last time I checked… Spectacular As$holes run the dating world #FACT
Keep in mind, these are ain't sh*t ninjas who lack a considerable amount of character & they date QUALITY women (how do I know… most of the FEMALE bloggers that consider themselves "quality women" have dated them & some continue to date them…)
Just wanted to remind you of that…
So, I can be an #ain'tshit ninja & still demand a high quality woman…
#ThatIsAll
I enjoyed today's discussion. Hugh Jazz is my favorite commenter.
It took me to the second to last paragraph to figure out if this was satirical or serious. marriage is hard work and single life is easy going and free? This is the mentality that black men are seen to have about everything. You're saying its true. That black men just prefer everything in life easy and when things start to get difficult they bail? Now the NFL strike makes so much sense. I won't disagree with your reasons because you are black, a man and unmarried but there are so many flaws in the theory in that there are alot of men, at least that I've met, who want to get married. They want to find the right woman. They don't have kids either. I think both men and women are looking for a better deal when they date, if they think of themselves as a catch. The only difference is black men have spent so many generations separating themselves from the black family unit that they want to accomplish everything on their own. Not realizing how many successful men have grown their careers with a woman by their side. With a partner.
I am interested to know where are all these young (eligible) black women who want to build with BM…
#WDDDA… & what state are you in…?
This us very true…this mantra about Black Woman being independant can be flipped right back with Black Men that don't need a Wife….mother's fill the gap for cooking, cleaning, and companionship. GF and jump offs fill the need for sexual gratification. Well there you have no need for Marriage for the average Black Man.
My recent post
Adonis, as far as eligibility is concerned, I'm interested in knowing why any black woman should take you seriously. Day in, day out, here you are wailing about the unfit nature of the black woman, and yet you come across as little more than a confused black boy who's trying to find his way. I'm not trying to be mean, and we're only months removed as far as age is concerned, but I feel as though my brother who is five years our junior has his head screwed on a little tighter than you do.
"Most Black Women Fail the Audition Miserably THANK YOU!!!, To recap that…- Overweight
– Attitudinal
– Kids OOW
– Lack of Respect For BM…
– Or just plain Immature & Selfish…"
The last time I looked in the mirror, I wasn't overweight. I'm loathe to catch an attitude for no apparent reason. I have no kids. Black men, as constituents of the human race, have my respect until they show me that it is undeserved. Most people commend me for my maturity because they always get the impression that I'm at least five years older than I really am
when I'm not acting the fool. Selfish isn't exactly a word that anyone who knows me would use to describe me. Now, as a woman who does not fit any of these criteria, there has been not one single day that you've given me the impression that you're someone who would be deserving of my interest & commitment. So again, I ask… what makes you so special as to paint my peers with such a putrid brush?Preach girl!!!!!
Adonis, as far as eligibility is concerned, I’m interested in knowing why any black woman should take you seriously. Day in, day out, here you are wailing about the unfit nature of the black woman, and yet you come across as little more than a confused black boy who’s trying to find his way. I’m not trying to be mean, and we’re only months removed as far as age is concerned, but I feel as though my brother who is five years our junior has his head screwed on a little tighter than you do.
I would love to have a conversation with your bro… and see if I can co-sign that… or just have a convo with you & see if your brother is WAVY only by YOUR standards of what a man should be…
The last time I looked in the mirror, I wasn’t overweight. I’m loathe to catch an attitude for no apparent reason. I have no kids. Black men, as constituents of the human race, have my respect until they show me that it is undeserved. Most people commend me for my maturity because they always get the impression that I’m at least five years older than I really am when I’m not acting the fool. Selfish isn’t exactly a word that anyone who knows me would use to describe me. Now, as a woman who does not fit any of these criteria, there has been not one single day that you’ve given me the impression that you’re someone who would be deserving of my interest & commitment.
I'll say this, BW ask why I would prefer other races of women… even though you don't fall into those categories, but 90% of BW do (I think that number is quite low BTW)
what makes you so special as to paint my peers with such a putrid brush?
I don't get the question… I wish you would rephrase it…
I don't see myself as special #lies… But I believe I am in the 1% of men that a woman would want… even though I lack the PROVIDER qualities most women would want…
But I criticize, cause I care…
I criticize cause I enjoy seeing BW get mad at the truth… I criticize because I am interested to see if BW have ANY strong rebuttal to my opinions (NONE so far…)
I criticize because I want to see BW get better (most likely they won't)
I criticize cause I have LEVERAGE…
1. My brother would probably give me a look like "Is this dude serious?" before shrugging and going back to his BBM.
2. The fact that you can sit there and tell me that 90% of a group falls into any one category, talkless of five, tells me a lot of what I need to know. I can't say that I expected any different.
3. You're in the 1% that women would want? So why don't they want you? Why aren't they throwing panties – real or imagined – at you? You can't tell me that it's due your lack of funds, because broke dudes stay winning in the game of love, sex & relationships.
4. Criticism is only as relevant as its source. I can honestly tell you that not one of my close friends would date you based on the..crap..that I see you spew daily. You call it being real and straightforward with little to no regard for how you're perceived, but what you have to say will carry no weight for as long as you're not taken seriously. And believe you me, few people take you seriously.
1. My brother would probably give me a look like “Is this dude serious?” before shrugging and going back to his BBM.
Cause I would EXPOSE him & your flawed opinion of him #ThatIsAll
2. The fact that you can sit there and tell me that 90% of a group falls into any one category, talkless of five, tells me a lot of what I need to know. I can’t say that I expected any different.
I think that was accurate of me… considering that 70% of BW are OVERWEIGHT… then if you throw in the ATTITUDE, KIDS OOW… I would say that 90%+ of BW fall into one of those categories… #FACT
3. You’re in the 1% that women would want? So why don’t they want you? Why aren’t they throwing panties – real or imagined – at you? You can’t tell me that it’s due your lack of funds, because broke dudes stay winning in the game of love, sex & relationships.
I'm a keep it real, cause that's what I do…
– Lack of Masculinity
– Money, Car, House, Job (Fully Established)
The only I have to rock IS CHARACTER… and that is on the BOTTOM of BW's list (which is fine with me, cause don't come looking for a RING, when I do put it all together…)
4. Criticism is only as relevant as its source. I can honestly tell you that not one of my close friends would date you based on the..crap..that I see you spew daily. You call it being real and straightforward with little to no regard for how you’re perceived, but what you have to say will carry no weight for as long as you’re not taken seriously. And believe you me, few people take you seriously.
@NaijaSweetz Whether you like it or not @Naija, I'M A PROBLEM… And when you ignore a PROBLEM,
THEY ONLY GET BIGGER…
And IDGAF what you think, cause at this point you "don't get it…"
I hope you are part of the BW who do get a ring… despite your mentality…
You just said that the only thing you have going is character, yet your character is the very thing causing you to lose major points. lol Kid, stop playing yourself. You're a problem alright, but not in the way that you think.
But I'm good on this back and forth because it's going nowhere. Have yourself a good night.
I thought so… At least I know I am not wrong… & I am not on some airy fairy BS….
As for BW… I'll be fine with them… I'll be iight…
Goodnight Sweetheart…
Sounds more like you hate black women
And this is what I feared about the article, all it took was a day for the comments to turn from "hey, we're in this together" to "black women, you suck." Now everyone's on here saying, "black women, most of you fail the audition." This statement has absolutely NO POWER when you consider that MOST PEOPLE FAIL THE AUDITION.
Then we have Adonis, who last year appeared on the site, complaining about how he couldnt get a black woman, and no one could understand him and blah blah blah, now he's talking about black women sucking? Wow, how a year can change.
Do i seem mad? Yes i am upset. I am upset because I am tired of black men, people who generally look and feel like me, the people who are supposed to be protecting the community i love, over criticizing and damn near chastising black women, the people that look and feel like my mom and aunts and sisters. Its at a point where its become perverse.
I am upset because I am tired of black men, people who generally look and feel like me, the people who are supposed to be protecting the community i love, over criticizing and damn near chastising black women, the people that look and feel like my mom and aunts and sisters. Its at a point where its become perverse.
should these guys shut up and man up?
#notbeinganass #WeNeedAResolution
Its not even about manning up. Its really about being honest with yourselves. I just dont see the point in coming on a blog saying, "most black women suck." What do we gain from that? There's not instruction on how not to suck. There's no acknowledgment that BM are a large part of the reason for the BW's perceived suckiness.
I dont know a single person, male or woman, who has it together and cant find a mate. Everyone should see that are flawed but it peeves me to hear BM tear down BW, when they are the reason the community still exists
I feel you got mad today and while everyone has bad days you took that out on this post because it pushed you over the edge. Like I always say, people label me misogynist and don't even know my full body of work. If you have been reading you'd know that in the last year over 75% of my posts have not been about Black women and any issues with them. That's just what it is. In addition, i've also written many blogs bigging Black women up, and i'm not sure if you were putting me in that category. But if anyone's reading my blogs and what i've been doing, and what a lot of what's going on at SBM. You would see that we do write a great amount of uplifting material for Black women, men and just the race in general. It's so funny to get a comment like this because as a staff we have so many conversations offline that either are saying, "Yo I really don't feel like talking about relationships anymore" or "It's been a minute since i've really gone in on women." With that said, I just don't get it. I think the post sent you over the edge and you just put yourself in a funk without really looking at the whole body of work in this post and at SBM.org.
Every Site I go to I see Black Men in particular creating this destructive rhetoric about Black Woman. What I rarely see in numbers are Black Woman doing the same thing. Black Woman are beaten into silence about our concerns about Marriage etc. Many Black Men have deep rooted Mommy Issues that have not been dealt with. That is the Real Issues that Black Men have with BW.
My recent post
@PEYSO (Please Excuse Your Significant Other)
When I see this name, I think of a man who attract women that are taken… Bless You Bro…
And this is what I feared about the article, all it took was a day for the comments to turn from “hey, we’re in this together” to “black women, you suck.” Now everyone’s on here saying, “black women, most of you fail the audition.” This statement has absolutely NO POWER when you consider that MOST PEOPLE FAIL THE AUDITION.
When 90% of WOMEN are chasing 10% of MEN (& vice versa), of course there are gonna be A FEW LOSERS… I Think
Then we have (the ALMIGHTY) Adonis, who last year appeared on the site, complaining about how he couldnt get a black woman, and no one could understand him and blah blah blah, now he’s talking about black women sucking? Wow, how a year can change.
I still can't find/get a decent BW (although I attribute this more to laziness than BW problems…) & I AM still misunderstood… & most BW do suck… I'm just glad that I am not the only BM that feels that way…
Do i seem mad? Yes i am upset. I am upset because I am tired of black men, people who generally look and feel like me, the people who are supposed to be protecting the community i love, over criticizing and damn near chastising black women, the people that look and feel like my mom and aunts and sisters. Its at a point where its become perverse.
Ok, this is where I go HAM…
Black Men Have Been Getting Thrown Under The Bus By Black Women For The 30+ Years
This sh*t where Black Men are criticizing Black Women is only like 5 years in the making… We need more BM speaking up, not less… You can't fix a community by ONLY address half the community, while BW remain untouchable
Besides BlackNBougie (I Love Black Men, shout out to @OneChele), I have yet to see article & website where BW praise the BM who are actually trying to be good human beings & understand that being BLACK & MALE in America is a hell of a challenge considering that we operate in a system that wasn't created & maintained BY US/FOR US… I think BM get more praise from WW than from BW, even if it for sexual reasons…
I'm glad you are mad, GET mad ninja… Hopefully you'll use that anger & drive to be a better human on this planet…
Enjoy
1) The name is just a name. Dont look to deeply into it. Peyso came before the acronym. And I've been w/ my girl for almost three years now
2) "When 90% of WOMEN are chasing 10% of MEN (& vice versa), of course there are gonna be A FEW LOSERS… I Think" – What are you talking about?
3) "I still can’t find/get a decent BW (although I attribute this more to laziness than BW problems…) & I AM still misunderstood… & most BW do suck… I’m just glad that I am not the only BM that feels that way…" – I really dont even have a rebuttal. Like I just feel bad for whatever world, place, town you live in.
4) "This sh*t where Black Men are criticizing Black Women is only like 5 years in the making… We need more BM speaking up, not less… You can’t fix a community by ONLY address half the community, while BW remain untouchable" – Was this where you went HAM? Explain to me how making broad, sweeping generalizations is informed commentary. Explain to me how you have helped women become better women. So is there an artificial time period of BW bashing? Is 30 years enough? Just b/c one side did it does it make it appropriate. Can you really say that we've addressed half of the community? When so many BM dont even see or admit the role that they play in it?
5) "Besides BlackNBougie (I Love Black Men, shout out to @OneChele), I have yet to see article & website where BW praise the BM who are actually trying to be good human beings & understand that being BLACK & MALE in America is a hell of a challenge considering that we operate in a system that wasn’t created & maintained BY US/FOR US… I think BM get more praise from WW than from BW, even if it for sexual reasons…" – You need to read more blogs I guess. I've seen them in Essence, Ebony, Sista Toldja's blog, and a bunch more
My last point is that you really give off a condescending air about you but based on what you've provided here and in past posts, I dont really see the basis for you doing so. To me you seem like a corny young bol but what do I know
1) The name is just a name. Dont look to deeply into it. Peyso came before the acronym. And I’ve been w/ my girl for almost three years now
2) “When 90% of WOMEN are chasing 10% of MEN (& vice versa), of course there are gonna be A FEW LOSERS… I Think” – What are you talking about?
Because I don't feel like doing research, I'll get back to this point… The first thing that comes to mind is…
http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/collateral-damage…
3) “I still can’t find/get a decent BW (although I attribute this more to laziness than BW problems…) & I AM still misunderstood… & most BW do suck… I’m just glad that I am not the only BM that feels that way…” – I really dont even have a rebuttal. Like I just feel bad for whatever world, place, town you live in.
NYC will be fine whether I am here or not… Thanks
4) “This sh*t where Black Men are criticizing Black Women is only like 5 years in the making… We need more BM speaking up, not less… You can’t fix a community by ONLY address half the community, while BW remain untouchable” – Was this where you went HAM? Explain to me how making broad, sweeping generalizations is informed commentary.
You forgot the WORD (ACCURATE) in that sentence…
I am a little DENSE define "informed commentary" for me…
Explain to me how you have helped women become better women.
I am going to lean "I haven't helped women become better women" but when dealing with women thus far
– I give them sound advice
– I haven't knocked any women up (at least I don't know of any women I have knocked up…)
Yeah, I haven't contributed anything to women getting better (yet)…
So is there an artificial time period of BW bashing?
Yes
Is 30 years enough?
10 years is fine…
Just b/c one side did it does it make it appropriate.
True… But women need it… AND you are giving me SIMP vibes now
Can you really say that we’ve addressed half of the community? When so many BM dont even see or admit the role that they play in it?
This is the magic question that I want you to elaborate on…
– Overweight – Black Men do enable Black Women & their weight problems by dealing with them
– ATTITUDE/DIVA Complex – I attribute that to feminism mostly…
– KIDS OOW – When BW have poor choices in MEN, it is hard to argue in her favor…
– Lack Of Respect For BM – To be honest, idk where this comes from… When a man meets a woman & he is already undeserving of a woman's respect because he is BLACK… this deserves its own blogpost…
5) “Besides BlackNBougie (I Love Black Men, shout out to @OneChele), I have yet to see article & website where BW praise the BM who are actually trying to be good human beings & understand that being BLACK & MALE in America is a hell of a challenge considering that we operate in a system that wasn’t created & maintained BY US/FOR US… I think BM get more praise from WW than from BW, even if it for sexual reasons…” – You need to read more blogs I guess. I’ve seen them in Essence, Ebony, Sista Toldja’s blog, and a bunch more
I will concede that point…
My last point is that you really give off a condescending air about you but based on what you’ve provided here and in past posts
(#KanyeShrug)
I dont really see the basis for you doing so. To me you seem like a corny young bol but what do I know
I am assuming that was an insult, but at least it is true… I am corny, & I am young (I think)…
Goodnight Bro…
Adonis,
I been thinking about a way to say this but…
You be doing too much. You're always all the way turnt up and I imagine you drink a lot of mountain dew or red bull. I'm not saying don't voice your opinion, but don't be a chihuahua. Take that for what it is. If you have issues with this, feel free to hit me up.
Thanks Slim…
I hate energy drinks… And to be honest, if we didn't have "TMIMITW" or guys like "PEYSO", then I would just be airy fairy & be more positive about my mothers, aunts, sisters, nieces & daughters…
I like the "antagonistic" me…
I think it brings out the best in people 🙂
http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-have-a-rati…
That flow chart is BAWSE…
But when dealing with BW, you have to deal with deflections, blended arguments & just emotional rational thinking… So, a private chat is in order, if you want a rational discussion
Marriage is one of the best decisions I ever made. And, it was a DECISION. I was single for 34 years before I met my husband. I never imagined that I'd really get married because 1) it seemed like a huge responsibility 2) it seemed so final (no more getting to know a new guy? no more dates with new men with new personalities and interests?) 3) I couldn't meet the perfect man 4) I couldn't be the perfect woman 4) I liked being single and doing my own thing….plus many more reasons.
But my husband really pursued me. I was so scared of marriage…. but I had a feeling that marrying this man would make me so happy. I had to push past the fear of growing up. I made a decision to do just that. I knew he was really the best guy I'd ever dated…and we had great chemistry…it could work! I hoped and prayed that living with someone wouldn't get old and would be fulfilling… It sooo is. WOW
If I thought I was happy being single, this right here must be called estatic. I get to be ME and I get to be loved and build a comfortable, fun, and happy life with my best friend …with benefits…?? Oh this is pure joy. Nothing is perfect, but marriage between mature adults who have the same values and goals and all that good stuff…marriage between those two can be something really beautiful and I recommend it 100%.
Congratulations Smokie…
You Must be a fantastic woman if he had to chase you down… What a lucky guy…
Sounds dreamy…
I'm older than you guys. I had to date a lot of frogs and I was a witch for a few years myself. I wasn't ready. No body should marry – ever – if they aren't ready mentally. My perspective on relationships changed at a certain point. Little things become obsolete non issues… My list was short. I wanted someone I was physically attracted to, who believed in God, worked, who I could have fun with, and loved the ground I walked on.
Also, my husband is from Birmingham, Alabama where the men out number the women. His mindset isn't that of a man who's lived in a city full of women. He's a Southern gentleman and I'm a Southern lady (Houston). I don't know how much region plays a part in black relationships, but we aren't really suffering TOO much down here.
Jay I didn't get to read this yesterday… but I wanted to comment and say nice post 🙂
Uh…we life size Brett dolls-handsome black lads-don't want to be tied down to a fat,mouthy broad and a bunch of brats.(You know,like 95% of men everywhere!!!)
Lots. Of. Firebending going on today..
SOZINS COMET HERE?
I saw this out there in a report: A study by Robin Wilson of the Washington and Lee University School of Law reports that women with MBAs get divorced or separated more often than those who have only a bachelor's degree, while women with law or medical degrees are more likely to divorce or separate than their male counterparts.
As a black female, I have never been around marriage. My dad died when I was a baby, my mom got married a 2nd time and they got divorced when I was 13, as a result my sister and I have different fathers. All of my black female friends are either single mothers (had babies and didn't get married) or once married and divorced. So the way I see it, I don't see any successful marriages within black people because I haven't seen it yet. Now I see every other race of people, whites, latinos, asians, arabs, now they get married but us, we always end up as baby mamas or baby daddies.
<blockquote cite="comment-314018">
Ebony:
As a black female, I have never been around marriage. My dad died when I was a baby, my mom got married a 2nd time and they got divorced when I was 13, as a result my sister and I have different fathers. All of my black female friends are either single mothers (had babies and didn’t get married) or once married and divorced. So the way I see it, I don’t see any successful marriages within black people because I haven’t seen it yet. Now I see every other race of people, whites, latinos, asians, arabs, now they get married but us, we always end up as baby mamas or baby daddies.
Why would a life-size Brett doll-in my case,a boyishly handsome,57-year-old-58 July 6-black Canadian lad WANT to marry when so many broads are gold-digging hos,and the ones who aren't and would desire us are PLAIN BABES!!!Yeah,a trade-off I'D WANT TO MAKE…NOT!!!
I am 30 .turning 31 soon and i have realized that marriage is not meant for everyone.some people say that it might be due to having narcissistic tendencies but i do enjoy my life the way it is and i dont think i want to change it now or in the future.. i realise from just the relationships that i am in that a marriage for me is a no-go zone and definitely will end in divorce and i am not ready to share my villa or my range rover or sport car with anyone after a divorce .i worked my ass for it and its mine.its not cos of only the fact that i enjoy my single life but when you see what some women are about then you dont ever want to take such a dive..
As an educated black man myself I fall in the category of want to be single, not because I don't want to face responsibilities, but because all these responsibilities comes with a large price tag. I cannot afford to be married, I cannot afford to bring a child into the world where billions of people will face shortages of food and shelter. I cannot afford to buy a house because I am paying back my student loans, and I cannot afford to provide such luxuries for a family because the job I love so much is not too high paying. I cannot afford to get married and be running around the globe to get another contract job, because of the way today's job trends are. Gone are the days when I could have a permanet job for 30 years with the same employer and be able to buy a house, get married and have kids to raise in the same community. Not to mention the higer cost of living in our so-called G-8 nations like Canada. Marriage is no longer a life long love partnership. And I get bugged by the church brainwashing people with all these idealistic teachings about marriage. Sure I beleive in faith, but I don't beleive that faith allows us to cop out from the realities of marriage in relation to the cost. And cost is my personal concern. I struggle to make money, save it, and keep it for myself to invest. Who want's to marry a black man like me who is fically conservative? Absolutely no black woman wants me because of that, plus the fact that I am a teacher. So I would rather make my life easier. Don't get married, and don't add to the population. There is not enough land to cultivate food for more hungry children. Most of all I don't want to loose my money to some woman (of any race) who cries too much over getting paid less money and then wants to max out my credit card.
On a final note, it is much easier to lust than to suffer from a broken heart.
@Sheldon…i enjoyed reading your post and had to reply.i am Alex and i posted prior to your post..I can see where you are coming from and i think the decision you made is a good one given your aforementioned reasons! haha now you just consolidated my believe of marriage as not been a absolute necessity! and i am black too though a little more financially stable as i am a stock broker
Financially Stability and all it's implications was a ideal that was gone by the 60's. Stability is not reality anymore.
My recent post
This is crazy
If a women I'm with has my child or If I want to start a family I'll get married. Other than that I see no reason to get married. I'm not afraid of marriage because I dont get in relationship with women I dont love.
Actually the fault still lies at the man's door because the Bible says the man is the leader. For years men had been leaving the women to fen for themselves, being all about themselves and saying "forget you to wife or girlfriend and kids!" as a result of the men leading the way into stupidity the women followed right behind them into it but differently. Most of their life they'd been around men who left them feeling hurt and alone so they tried to "man up" so to speak, and come off all hard and tough when in reality they are just wishing for that man to be a man so that they can finally be a woman. No not a jerk where you're like "woman get my food now!" ordering her about like she your dag on slave but asking nicely! You draw more bees with honey than vinegar dear. Soon you'll see her change from your man bride to your princess bride. But you must be consistent or it won't work. We women are followers, we're just looking for a man who's worth following : )!
Oh and we want to be married and taken care of, but you all drag your feet or never even ask. Why won't you marry us?! You too good to be married to someone? Well when your old and alone you'll wish you had of just had one woman instead of all the baby mama drama you have to deal with! Do you know why some of us go to men of different color? Because you black men won't step up most of the time! More of them are ready to get married than ya! Do you know why a lot of us are angry? Because we are waiting and waiting and waiting for our men to stop being boys and to finally be a MAN!!! Being a man does not mean that you are 25+ years old.
Being a man means that you are responsible like a man, you want to take of the woman, like a man should, and most of all you are willing to lead because that's what a man is a leader not some chump. You are not always spending time with your "boys" but spending time with your wife and children. I'm not saying that you shouldn't hang with your friends some of the time, but it shouldn't be more time with them than your wife and children. They need you, your "boys" will survive!
We women are tired of being both father and mother to our children. My mom had to be both mother and father in our home because my dad, even though he said "I do!", he didn't! He left us for his moma who hated my mom and us. I would like to know of one black man who is willing to step up to the plate marry the woman and take care of her and the children they have for the rest of their lives! One! Is that too much to ask? I don't think so! I read some of the comments and got disgusted and had to stop reading them because again I saw all of what I'm stating is wrong +more! That's it, that's all, I'm not going to say anymore because I might say something I regret!