"If one more of these bloggers badmouths strong black women ... I swear"
Life is hard for the “Strong Black Woman”. You have videos like the Black Marriage Negotiations making some bold statements about their needs and desires, you have statistics telling them they will remain unwed and childless, and you got arrogant blogs of single black males taking pot shots everyone and their mom restating these facts every other hour.
Yeah … life is hard.
Realistically, there are problems with the “strong black woman,” but you can only beat up on one group of people so much. And really, they aren’t all bad. There are plenty of good and strong black women who make great mothers, supportive girlfriends, and beautiful wives.
So … today I am going to go outside of my usual role as the “beat down” guy and stand up for this group. Yes, SBM is taking up the flag for the SBW’s of the world today.
Appreciate it … who knows when/if it will happen again.
7 Unfortunate (yet sometimes true) Stereotypes of Strong Black Women
They can’t let their husband/boyfriend lead
Go outside and take a poll right now. Go and ask every professional black male that crosses your path for the next 3 hours to rate the capability of a high achieving black woman to let them lead a household from 1 to 10. Don’t be surprised when you get an average of 3. Basically, we (good black men) are generally convinced that similarly strong black women lack the ability to relinquish control. Not going to speak on whether it’s true, but it is a stereotype.
They hate white woman
Somehow for one too many SBWs, the white woman is the devil incarnate. Not only do they steal all (and let them tell it, it really is every single one) good black men … but they are also plotting to take out Obama and were the real driver’s behind slaver. *sigh*
They spend 5 hours a day complaining about how there are no good men
It pains me to say this because I think its kind of true, but the fact is every SBW isn’t stuck blaming men on all of their problems. Some will admit they aren’t ready for a caring and committed relationship. Some will admit they have some personal growing to do. And some know that there are real causes to problems that aren’t just “the black man”.
They are overly demanding of their men
Well … you see … f*ck it. I agree with this one for > 50% of SBWs. But … even if it’s true … it’s still a stereotype.
They all belong to a Black Greek Letter Organization
Hmmmm … I want to say this one is true most of the time too, but there isn’t a college chapter at every university and Delta’s only cross grad lines once every 6 years … so they can’t all be rocking someone’s colors.
They have a 3 page requirement list for every man
“He’s got to be 6’3″ … at least. He needs to have his master’s, JD, or MD. He can’t have ever had dreads …” and the list goes on. But the truth is you can’t blame the entire crew for what one or two people are doing. Sure there are a lot of SBWs that have google sized databases if requirements, but that isn’t all of them. Many SBWs know what really makes a good man.
They aren’t freaky in bed
For several years of my life, ever Strong Black Woman I dated (and I dated a healthy amount of them) was too strong to give me dome on her knees. Yes … you heard me. The act of getting on your knees to please your man was so degrading … I was denied. BUT … I come to preach that there are many strong women with strong knees. Not only that, but they are experimental, bi-curious, and willing to put on that maid outfit and wear heels to bed. Not all SBWs are prudish, “missionary only”, boring lovers.
So basically … the “Strong Black Woman” get’s a bum rap. And while there are some SBWs who embody every single thing mentioned here and make life miserable for any black man (strong or not) that crosses her path … let’s not let this b**** ruin it for the future wives out there.
For all my beautiful, stereotype killing, dinner cooking, man pleasing, doming while kneeling, non-demanding, let your man lead the house, got your own money and 50/50 giving women … thank you. You make life worth living.
– SBM aka “On your knees please” aka “Yeah I’m above 6’0″ … even if its only 1/2 an inch over”
I agree with this article. Thank God I'm not one of those women. I'm more of a traditionalist. If I can be the submissive housewife to the right man I'll be Happy.
Okay, I've been reading these post and I just have to say that I feeling a backhand bash. I am a accomplished black women in the legal field and due to my profession being weak is not an option but being intelligent is an asset. I have been around for 43 years and in some arenas when a man see a intelligent women with morals and a sense of character he claims she is controlling, dominating. Just because I'm a women who is successful and knows what I want and wont take less why does that flaw me? Why is it when a women is strong in character she is viewed as aggressive and when she is really submissive its deemed as week. Either way we are characterized and viewed badly, so can we ever win?
The answer is a resounding "no". You will NEVER win if you are trying to please everyone and "society" at large.
You win when you are the best you you can be.
You win when you are authentically yourself.
You win when you're not concerned with fitting a mold, but breaking molds.
You win when you stop comparing yourself to another chick on that "well a least I…" (fill in the blank with any sort of venom that we spew at each other on a daily.)
That's all we can do. When you are you, you win. Point blank.
Did you mean to say 43 years?!
And I agree with your post. eff a stereotype though!
"I am a accomplished black women in the legal field and due to my profession being weak is not an option but being intelligent is an asset."
That is your profession. You should be able to separate your work life and your dating life as success in them do not depend on the same factors.
"I have been around for 43 years and in some arenas when a man see a intelligent women with morals and a sense of character he claims she is controlling, dominating."
Is she? Really look at that woman and she may actually be controlling/dominating. Some men are okay with it some aren't.
"Just because I’m a women who is successful and knows what I want and wont take less why does that flaw me?"
It doesn't flaw you. It just shows that you have a set of standards.
"Why is it when a women is strong in character she is viewed as aggressive and when she is really submissive its deemed as week. Either way we are characterized and viewed badly, so can we ever win??"
Stop trying to "win". You will lose every time.
This is my complete opinion but a woman's strength is better demonstrated and not verbally put out there. If a woman is constantly saying how strong of a person she is and how she is this and that then to a man it is essentially saying "I don't need you. Do you see how awesome I am? I'm doing you a favor by blessing you with my presence!" A man wants to feel like he has a place in your life. If you are doing so much and letting it be known how much you are doing all of the time why would a man want to be with someone that doesn't have time for him?
WIth that attitude, GOD bless you, if you don't have a tough time dating…
If you like men, you will know when to be "strong" and when to be a "woman"
Good luck with that
It was brought to my attention that we need clarification on what you mean by "legal field". I just don't know that many lawyers who are 43 years old who can't write well.
Jk
Sort of…
LOL I caught the same thing but decided to leave it alone.
You read my mind. That is all.
You forgot the #1 true stereotype…….they're single.
You forgot the #1 stereotype … something is wrong with them.
LOL.
I'm not gonna lie, i've met several Black women who don't meet any of these stereotypes, but they are single and it's not like they aren't looking.
They can’t let their husband/boyfriend lead – Nope they have no problem letting the man lead, so they don't have to spend any money or do any heavy lifting.
They hate white woman – See later comment, but black girls always have one or two white friends. She'll be cool too, they'll tease the heck out of that white girl, but deep down they love her.
They spend 5 hours a day complaining about how there are no good men – I don't know, sometimes women spend a lot of time complaining that there is a good man out there, he just don't want her, or he be effing other b*tchies, lol.
They are overly demanding of their men – Apparently, this is just a front. I just can't explain how many men don't pay child support, or women who will let their men just about DO ANYTHING to them.
They all belong to a Black Greek Letter Organization – Man chicks will tell you, "I ain't in no sorority because I don't mess with fake women." Meanwhile, they have a weave, girdle, and a car they can't afford. I don't like dating Greeks though, well at least Black Greeks. Line sisters be tripping…
They have a 3 page requirement list for every man – Apparently, this is a front too. Because some women will date ANY DUDE. This lady was telling me how she was dating this dude who was about to graduate, i'm like, why are you dating this young cat, she's like no he's 27. I'm like oh he went back to school, (mind you he at like, VSU), she's like, "no he just hasn't finished yet."
They aren’t freaky in bed – Yeah, Black women be freakier than a mug. The freakiest things that have ever happened in my sex life have been with Black women. Wait, no there was the chick from Singapore, she was nastier than a public restroom. But nah, Black women will be like, "hit me, spank me, call me [insert things you can say during sex, but don't ever say them outside of sex]." And I put this on everything I love, Black chicks get in the doggie style position willingly, now that's what's up! Not to say other folks don't do this, I just never seen it.
But despite all this, they are single. I just have to shoulder shrug it, because it makes sense, but it don't make sense. Something is wrong with them.
I was all ready and set to comment..then I read this which echoed my sentiments exactly.
Co-sign!
I can't even open my mouth to say otherwise lol
Co-sign, especially on item #1. SBW's do enough heavy lifting…any man who shows initiative and wisdom is welcome to take the lead.
yes! give me a man willing to take the lead at home and I'm putty.
I was pleasantly surprised that I agreed with this post, Dr. J.
The last sentence is actually kind of ironic in a way. I definitely think that that is the prevailing attitude even when all the other stereotypes are debunked.
You're welcome 🙂
Ditto. 🙂
I think it is all one big marketing ploy to take dollars from black women. It seems like every week there is an article or tv special exploiting the fact that there are more and more single black woman over 30 (the church does a pretty good job of this too). This has caused men who have been divorced a few times ( a la Steve Harvey) to write books explaining how to get black men and how to understand them. I really dont think there is much to understand, at this particular point its just a numbers game, more single black women then men. I hate to say it but some folks are just going to have to try "something new." I would rather them do this than feel it is something they are doing wrong or should be changing about themselves.
I think a big part of the issue…at least mine…is that the concept of "trying something new" isn't something I WANT to do. It's not my preference or an innate attraction. I have to TRY to find things to be attracted to in men of other races. BUT, I understand the concept and perhaps the need to be open to it. I personally struggle with it.
I think all of these stereotypes have some level of truth to them. But I'd say the same for women of all races. I have several friends that are Chinese, Filipino, White, etc. that maintain these beliefs or have friends that do. So it's not a SBW thing, it's a woman thing.
I don't think there is something wrong with Black women, perhaps I'm biased. I think we are who we are and instead of putting labels on those you haven't met, go into each one with an open mind. There are plenty of negative stereotypes of black me that I choose not to repeat or endorse. And yes, I know living and breathing examples. But I don't care, I look at each of you separately. Perhaps that's an idealistic way of thinking…oh well.
Great post!
i would say a lot of these are strong stereotypes. i know plenty of strong women and a lot of them don't have problems finding and keeping meaningful relationships.
"and Delta’s only cross grad lines once every 6 years"
i call shenanigans on this one.
"For several years of my life, ever Strong Black Woman I dated (and I dated a healthy amount of them) was too strong to give me dome on her knees."
who wants to get head while standing up anyway? if the head is that good you should be weak-kneed anyway. or maybe that's just me. *shrug*
just because she's on her knees doesn't mean he's on his feet. #seatedservice
well then. lol
I actually love head standing up…
a real domegover takes pleasure in watching your knees buckle.
For some reason this post really got on my nerves…it was also rife with typo's. Did you post this from your blackberry?
You were supposed to be sticking up for the SBW but instead the entire post still seemed like a put down to me. That's probably why it got on my nerves.
I have no other comments, it's too early and maybe I'm just not in the mood on a Monday to see yet another list of problems that are directed at black women.
You were supposed to be sticking up for the SBW but instead the entire post still seemed like a put down to me.
^Basically…it was like an underhanded compliment
Exactly…keep the underhanded compliment…this post was wack.
LOL – but didn't you read the disclaimer? We're supposed to bask in the "love" from our SBM…cuz who knows when he'll deign to be nice to us again. Lawd.
Girl…I say "whatever" to SBM today…
co-signs
I think i'm going to agree. I understand the stereotypes, But whats the point of the post?
This is too funny! Oh yeah, and strong black women can't take a joke either, right….LMAO!
I come from a family of SBW whom all have husbands that LOVE our freaky, know when to be submissive, not a fan of sororities, not that hard to please women with standards that could care less about what any other woman is doing.
Thanks for a great motivating Monday post SBM!
Ok, first this is a great post for those women who identify with being a SBW.
But, I don't even identify with being a SBW. This will probably be an unpopular viewpoint, but strength (inherently) is a masculine quality. When someone mentions the word strong, I think, man, not woman.
Anyway, being that I'm a woman and consider myself feminine, I reject the idea of being "strong" used in a title to describe me. I have strength, yes, that I pull from when I need it, but to classify myself as strong as a characteristic, I denounce that and one will not hear me refer to myself as such.
I think that's the problem with saying that as well. When someone says, STRONG Black woman, that takes away the adjective to describe a man and therefore, you have stereotypes like the above, that abound, whether true or not. Also, it seems to carry a negative connotation, which I gather is from the stereotypes it perpetrates.
#2- Hilarious–I personally don't know any women like this, but I know there are plenty. I actually have a very good White friend in Boston. She and I are mentally( and eerily) in unison with a lot of things.
I do have a question about #4. What does overly demanding mean? Examples please.
I tend to think this is HIGHLY overblown and that has never sat right with me. It seems that with non-black women, things/actions are an expectation of men, but with BW, things/actions are demanding. Just curious of any BM's definition of overly demanding.
The rest, I've heard and seen as well. These are indeed stereotypes, that's all.
signed,
a non-SBW
You know what… i see the point you were trying to get across w/ this and I have to say that I agree.
Additionally, while people call me 'strong' I can't think of any extenuating circumstances (besides being Black in America) that i've proved my strength under. You know?
Exactly So Flyy, me neither. I haven't really had any hard times now or growing up besides the usual and being black,even then I haven't really had anything to write home about. I don't have any children and I have a great career, so I haven't had to be strong, so far—in the spirit of this post).
I also think that ALL women have strength. BW tend to verbalize it more often and "louder". Other cultures of women have "silent" strength. They don't proclaim through the streets that they're strong; it shines through anyway.They also still appear to be feminine and they're just as "strong" as BW.
For example, I think single mothers have undeniable strength. But that's evident without them having to say it.
I agree when one here's the word "strong", a masculine nature is attached to it. But that doesn't make it right. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with a woman displaying strength. The problem I see is that when a woman is described as being strong, there is an assumption that she cannot turn it off or that her strength is over bearing. That to me is poppy cock. There's also an idea that a "strong" woman takes away from a man being "strong"…again, poppy cock. I know plenty of men married to strong women and there is no question of his masculinity or strength. These ideas seem to be rooted in insecurity/fear moreso than anything else.
I am extremely feminine, and can and will submit. But I am equally strong depending on the situation. It doesn't make me any less female or feminine. And surely doesn't take away from the strength of any man I date. The idea that a woman can't be strong or shouldn't be is ridiculous in my opinion. But hey, to each his/her own.
It's not that you aren't strong or can't be strong b/c he is strong… I'm also not saying (and I'm sure new2natural would agree) that I'm not strong or have no strength b/c that is surely not true. But what we're saying is strong isn't a main identifying word I would use to describe myself. If I had to pick an an adjective to place in front of 'BW' to describe myself strong would not be it… doesn't mean that I don't have strength. Just like being strong doesn't preclude you from being other things…
Oh, I completely agree and understand. I just don't think describing one's self as being strong is a negative. But like you, Strong wouldn't be there first adjective I'd use to describe myself. 🙂
ITA! That's what I was trying to verbalize, So Flyy.
"I don’t believe that there is anything wrong with a woman displaying strength. The problem I see is that when a woman is described as being strong, there is an assumption that she cannot turn it off or that her strength is over bearing."
Co-sign.
"I am extremely feminine, and can and will submit. But I am equally strong depending on the situation. It doesn’t make me any less female or feminine. And surely doesn’t take away from the strength of any man I date. The idea that a woman can’t be strong or shouldn’t be is ridiculous in my opinion."
I agree with this too. But, my issue is the public/verbal identification and classification of strong in relation to BW. I agree, that women, black or otherwise, can be equally strong, but like you qualified—depending on the situation. My issue is this, why is it only used to classify BW and negatively? Why do some BW embrace it so wholeheartedly and proclaim it so loudly when it's quite evident (to me) that BW have tremendous strength?
I guess my point is, I don't prefer term that to describe me. I am so much more than that and although I have strength, it's not something I need to proclaim or need to display ALL the time, just on an as needed basis.
@TiffNicky, I think we're all on the same page.
I think we are too. 😉
Web definitions for strong – having strength or power greater than average or expected.
I totally agree that this is me.
According to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, the word
"Strong" can also designate:
1. One having moral or intellectual power
2. One not easily injured or disturbed
3. One not easily subdued or taken
…With this in mind, many derogatory references to being a SBW are subtle jabs at the idea that we won't work full-time, come home, cook, shut-up, get "on our knees", and hand you our paychecks with a smile. At least, not to just anyone. 😉 Nothing brings me more comfort than the idea of my man taking the lead, and I personally have no desire to be chief. You'll find, though, that most women are not the least bit interested in being stupid. If she has a great deal going for her, she actually going to make sure her man has her best interest at heart first.
"Nothing brings me more comfort than the idea of my man taking the lead, and I personally have no desire to be chief. You’ll find, though, that most women are not the least bit interested in being stupid. If she has a great deal going for her, she actually going to make sure her man has her best interest at heart first."
Amen! I know I've said this on here before. THIS is what I look forward to most about being in a healthy relationship.
"Nothing brings me more comfort than the idea of my man taking the lead, and I personally have no desire to be chief."
For me, this is definitely Truth.com.
THIS!
Who really wants to sing a soldier song anyway—I don't. Marching broke the heels on my stilettos….
There is nothing negative about strength, silent or otherwise. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging said strengths because you HAVE TO BE YOUR BIGGEST FAN!
Submissive does not equal WEAK nor does it equal loud either. There is major strength in submitting and silence.
Why is that when even a good word is used to describe us—we find a way to make it BAD!?!?
very well said!
I agree with what you're saying Beef Bacon, but, IME, when a man, a Black man specifically because I haven't heard any other race of man actually say this to me, it's usually with snark. It's not a happy-go-lucky, "oh, you're a strong, black woman, that's great!". It's more of a dark, "Oh. You're a STRONNNNG black woman. You probably don't need a man, you're independent…or insert whatever complaint/insult, etc.
Also proclaiming your strengths has a time/place. I just don't think it's a necessary adjective to describe BW when it's clearly evident.
I agree that that there is nothing negative about strength, but it carries that connotation, in this society with regards to BW.
Wow New2nautral, those dudes are wack aren't they….lol.
Men that I encounter see this as a win-win, and that is why I have not had a shortage of suitors. I have run across a dude or two that later realize I was not their cup of tea. I say good riddance because we obviously are not compatible.
When searching for a partner one has to be REALISTIC in his needs and wants, because once you get past looks, you have to be able to deal with WHO that person really is….strong, dependent, workaholic or whatever the case may be. Just know what you want and stop settling, than getting upset when that person does not conform to your idea of what they should be.
I love my strengths and appreciate the brothers that do– those are the men that I am concerned with. Society would give me a headache wondering what else I need to change to fit in…smdh.
Well said and I agree 100%.
I'm obviously not black, but this. right. here. –> "Submissive does not equal WEAK nor does it equal loud either. There is major strength in submitting and silence." I stay fighting this fight.
And I gotta cosign that this felt a lot like a backhanded post.
*scuttles back into my lurker position*
What?!? You're not black?
I think you left lurkerville quite a bit ago. LOL
LMAO!!!!!! Thanks for that laugh…lol
You know what I mean, this post was directed specifically at black women so I felt the need to STFU…but sometimes…ya know, my mouth has a mind of it's own
eff a pause: FULL STOP.I saw the Black Marriage negotiations video, while it was entertaining and there were some points it was a bit Tyler Perryish on its extremeness.
I know alot of females whose list goes like this: God Fearing, Sincere, Caring, Sense of Humor, and Faithful. Thats it, seems easy but that is not the case. Most men I know (single or married) will not settle down until they are in their 30's. We suffer from the train of thought that there is something better out there and our stock will rise and we don't want to cash in too early. Where this differs from the old days is a man chose a wife and built a legacy TOGETHER. Now everyone wants to do it by themselves and then see what they can get when they have multiple degrees, six-figures, and a 7series BMW.
Life has a way of knocking people down. I would rather be with the one who struggled with me from the beginning and will share the success when I arrive. The one who is there only when you have the glitter is not there for you, she wants your lifestyle. I am not saying every woman that meets someone who is already successful and balling is a gold digger, but there is a good chance she saw you then a lifestyle of nice stuff, bottles, vip, and high society. I want someone who wants me for ME.
Another thing is that alot of black men can't deal with a woman who matches them for career and accolades. I have plenty of homeboys who wouldnt date a woman who made more than them orhas a high powered career. I dont know if its because it makes them feel like less of my man or they feel a woman on their ish will stay on them about handling their ish. Strip me of my title, money, cars, degrees, and achievements I am still a man. If you feel those things define you as a man then you need to check yourself like those dudes wearing skinny jeans and carrying man purses.
"if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best " – Marylin Monroe
Well put!
"I know alot of females whose list goes like this: God Fearing, Sincere, Caring, Sense of Humor, and Faithful. Thats it, seems easy but that is not the case."
C-Ro, you are so right. That list doesn't contain anything that is impossible or outrageous. Those things are basic things that any man, regardless of his statue in life, should be able to adhere to.
I think a lot of men do meet those but then some women start throwing in some irrelevant "deal breakers" and hurt themselves.
I agree with you overall but I don't on the part where men always think that there is something else out there. As someone that is recently engaged I didn't care about what else was out there I was more concerned about if I was up to the task to be someone's husband. A lot of women don't get this aspect of marriage from a man's perspective. Its a big responsibility that shouldn't be taken lightly. I'm of the firm belief that marriage goes way beyond just being in love.
"I didn’t care about what else was out there I was more concerned about if I was up to the task to be someone’s husband."
I agree with this and a very valid point
I think a lot of the targeting of Black Women in these blogs and in general is getting to be quite ridiculous, which is where I believe SBM was going with his post.
Like, since when was it in fashion to promote the 'plight" of the black woman? Seriously? Its getting to be ridiculous and everyone who feeds into it isn't helping the situation.
At the end of the day, it's a numbers game. Take a look at the black family (I call deference on Most to break it down succinctly if he so chooses bec he has before) and you will see thatthe numbers of black men vs black women are low. The college stats, and everyother stat would say that there's more black women then men out there. maybe a Slim Jackson can highlight the Darwinism of black women and dating. I would do it, but [insert excuse here]
Black women let me tell you
1) You dont have to relegate yourself to one race
2) there is no REAL problem other than numbers. How you differentiate yourself from the pack, relative to the man you desire, is what will determine your success. If you can't be you, then is it really worth it?
3) Never settle!
4) sometimes, you may not be attractive to men you desire. If you have real friends around you, they will help you to step your game up physically, emotionally, and spiritually to change your appeal. This is so necessary.
5) The advice in 1-4 applies to ALL women
but you knew that already…
Streetz, you be preachin' in here!
Streetz, I really appreciate what you wrote here and you did an eloquent job of voicing some of the things that I was thinking and feeling at the time that I responded but couldn't get the words out properly.
Thank you.
((((((THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE)))))))
Thank! You!
co-signs on this too.
*throws confetti, dollas and maternity drawers at Streetz comment*
maternity drawers?
She said, know what, grow up,
You nasty.
LOL, I had to say something.
I agree with all of this except for the never settle part and only that partially.
The term settle has a negative interpretation when I don't think it has to. I'm not saying be with the dude that beats your ass but takes you well, but instead be with the dude that has his stuff together and treats you correctly.
You aren't settling unless you are accepting something that you shouldn't. Most people, from my experience, seem to think settling is being with the first dude that comes at you half decently once you hit a certain imaginary point so that you won't grow old by yourself.
"You aren’t settling unless you are accepting something that you shouldn’t."
^^
This is the context I meant it in, and I rock with your comment too!
po lil tink tink…. I guess I'm a weak black woman. I'm 0/7.
I can think of several women who fit these stereotypes though. For months I've been complaining that SBM has not been accurately portraying black women but then I started reading the comment sections of some blogs or meeting new women and…. le.sigh. Let's hope that ish isn't contagious.
Nah here is where black women go wrong……in case you haven't seen it……."Miseducation of the Black Man"
ROFL……hate to say it……but this join 100% true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBhz1cK_f9A
So are you saying the SBW won't have these issues if she stop messing with Thug life dudes? So now we have bad taste in men….ladies add that to the list of things we do wrong.
IMO, This says more about men; or are we responsible for that too?
Whatever. Insecurity comes in all forms: suits and hoodies alike. However, I get the video is saying but it plays into other stereotypes so I can’t take it serious.
The video basically says everything men do….they do to attract women…….and the minute women stop given "aint ish" dudes all the pu$$y. Dudes will switch up. And despite what women say they want on blogs (lol)…..actions speak louder than words. Thug dudes and ignorant ball players stay pullin all the brawds. So das why 80% of these youngins want to sell drugs, rap or play ball. They got eyes and they see who women are given the attention to.
This should accompany the blog, as I'm sure that is what SBM was trying to verbalize were stereotypes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgyg8vEHraE&fe…