Last week I had a one of my lady friends (Literally just a friend that’s of the opposite sex) tell me she was “sick of these New York City men.” I sat there quietly expecting her to continue. After a longer than normal silence, I obliged and asked her what she meant. I got the following:
“I go out with some of these wack dudes and then they just fall off the map. All they wanna do is text and they call so sporadically that I can’t tell what the f*ckin’ deal is.”
My first instinct was to ask her why she was intentionally going out with wack dudes, but figured that would be an awful idea. My second instinct was to tell her there’s nothing wrong with texting and that I hate the phone myself. Actually, I did tell her that and referenced a post I wrote on the topic that some women actually co-signed. She wasn’t too happy with me, but at least she visited the site. I then settled on the following:
“How do you know he wasn’t interested? It doesn’t seem like you asked very many questions. The other thing is why don’t you just tell the dudes to call and that if they don’t, it isn’t going anywhere because the phone is important to you?”
“I shouldn’t have to do all that,” she replied. “I just want to be courted or chased a little.” But it seems like men does not like chasing.
And you won’t have to worry about this with me.
My friend was starting to sound like a few women I’d been out with this year. My cynicism set in. “Hahaha. You wanna be courted? Have you seen the landscape out there? Does equal opportunity mean anything to you?” I was being a jerk. She knew it too. Fortunately, we have that dynamic where we can insult and clown each other without feelings getting hurt most of the time.
As you can probably tell, I’m not an aggressive courter or chaser. I’m not going to fight across a crowd at a club or bougie Black networking event to get to a chick before the next man. Should we happen to be in close proximity, I’ll say something. My game spittery is minimal. Either you like me or you don’t. If you’re unsure, don’t expect me to try to sway you. If I get your phone number, I’ll text…and call. But please understand that if I call you and you don’t pick up or call me back in a reasonable (24 hours) amount of time barring a medical or occupational emergency, my interest will wane quickly. If I attempt to make plans with you and you flake without a good excuse and effort to reschedule on the spot, I’m done. I’ll assume you’re not interested, therefore I’m not interested. No country for time wasting. I also have an issue with people that can’t be upfront and choose to engage in side-steppery rather than press the release button and let the fish off the hook and back into the sea. That’s a separate post.
I’ve been encountering chicks from the past as well as their friends and getting hit with the “what happened and how come you fell off the face of earth?” To this day, I’m still surprised when this plays out. My response is simple: “I thought you/she weren’t/wasn’t interested.” Apparently I was supposed to call 2 more times and push for 2 more dates before she would act like a normal person that wanted to get to know somebody. Keep in mind that these are women over the age of 25.
For as nice a guy as I can be and as Piscean as I am, I still suck at jumping through hoops and over hurdles—particularly for someone I’m just getting to know. The chase doesn’t excite me. It makes my head hurt. If a gentleman continuously pursues a lady despite an ambiguous response, then I’m an uncouth bastard. Let me burp, fart, and be gone.
Yeah, I ended it that way. What do you think of the chase at this point in your life? Do you prefer to hunt or be hunted? Has getting someone’s attention easily ever turned you off? What is courting in 2010? Do you have rules around initially contacting someone you just met? Or it is true that men does not like chasing? Am I really a caramel douche?
Making the immature tongue between own lips farty sound,
P.S. I know at least a few of you attempted to make the farty sound then laughed.
I see nothing wrong with anything you stated here and if I were a man, I wouldn't make any effort beyond that either. That said, I'm not entirely sure based on just the small info that you gave that this is the scenario she was referring to. I've had guys that I'm semi-interested in that I make plans with just to have some "reasonable" reason (excuse) keep them from showing up. Then I don't hear from them and completely forget who they are. Three months later, here goes my phone ringing off the hook.
Maybe she was talking about a similar situation. *shrugs*
Also, yes, there is such a thing as TOO much attention, too fast.
Sanen, I've had that happen before. The last time it did, I just straight up asked him why he was calling me out of the blue. It was revealed he wasn't totally out of one relationship before trying to pursue another.
*puts tongue between lips, makes farty sound* lmao. Yep, I did it as soon as finished the sentence.
I like being courted. If I'm interested in a man, I respond positively to his attempts to court. I do not respond to texts as the first form of communication. Sorry, but if you want to court and date me, you have to be comfortable with the spoken word.
Good post. Similarly, I dont chase and even wrote about not chasing before on my own site; my theory being that 'Dogs Chase.'
In my opinion, women confuse "courtship" with chasing every day of the week, B. It's not the same but I dont want to fight about it so I'm not going to bring it up.What is courting in 2010?
However, concerning this question, it does seem that whatever you want to call it, chasing, courting or other, men AND women are doing less of it and have less patience for it in 2010 (and 2011 – 20forever). Or is it just me?
Basically, it seems like men and women have less patience for dealing with each other. lol What you use to pass as a cute/annoying but live-with-able quirk in the 90s is suddenly "F that I'm never calling him/her again because I can just hop my @as on Twitter/ Facebook/ [social media site of your choice] so I don't need this BS. On to the next one." People are starting to treat dating like iPod selections. Even if you find a song you like when's the last time you listened all the way thru before changing your mind/music?
Dah well, I'm sure I'm trippin. *powers up iPod random shuffle & heads back over to the Twitter to continue flirting with random chicks*
I agree about the patience thing. Everyone wants someone else to move at their pace. Everyone has this strong sense of entitlement about how they should be pursued.
I co-sign this WIM! I definitely don't have the patience.
It's so sad, because it's so true…*sigh*
There's a difference between "courting" and wanting people to sweat you. I concur with Large Meech. We're all grown we can contact each other, speak and converse. Im not going to break my neck for you, especially if you aren't returning calls/texts. you get 3 strikes then its a wrap!
I know you ain't sweatin' nobody Streetzie 🙂
Cmon Queen, stop insinuating. lol.
Im just saying that theres a difference between chasing and courting… same way as theres a difference between showing affection and simping. I tend to be on the non simp side, tis all.
Co-sign 3x…
"The chase doesn’t excite me. It makes my head hurt."
I couldn't agree more. I love this post. Perhaps it's the introvert in me (or the fuck-it) but I couldn't picture myself questioning/caring whether someone I'm just getting to know is interested or not. More than expressing interest, it's only sensible to communicate with someone you're supposedly trying to get to know, no? I'm quite the approachable young lady but I seldom pursue further correspondance unless you and I had a phenomenal convo or unique introduction or something! I get bored easily and if take off is mutually lackadaisical, what's the point? These situations never feel like a loss for me.
SN I read but rarely comment. great post, hello all!
**Sips cup of morning tea**
Thanks for stepping out from the shadows. 🙂
I too fall prone to getting bored really easily… It sucks especially since people are so busy in their own lives that after a week or so of MIA I just toss a guy into the burned pile lol
No you're not a douche.
I totally agree. I think when it comes to dating, I question if I am even good at it because I don't even do anything special. I'm not into putting on shows and dancing *yowzers yowzers* to get attention. I'm the same, you either like or you don't. I'm a minimalist and I'm good with that.
I can't get into the chase. I have my rules when it comes to communicating. Return my calls and texts. I do both, so should you.
Drew-Shane is a masterpiece of minimalism…God, I love that quote…even if you didn't directly say it you made me think of it and for that I am smiling. Thank you.
That's ME!
Usually when I hear the 'I dont chase' argument I just think a guy doesnt want to work too hard. Or more specifically hasnt met a woman he believes he should work that hard for. Now I understand not wanting to chase when a woman is not showing much interest in your advances. However if I am showing interest I would like a man to make an effort if he is also interested. Otherwise I will think "he's just not that into me".
If you are showing interest then a man is not chasing you. To a man chasing is trying and getting nowhere. It seems women look at chasing as a man trying to show interest.
usual male/female disconnect.
This is pretty deep.
Hmmm…interesting point! I haven't looked at it like that.
I think what Animate is saying is valid.If the woman is responsive, returns calls/messages, then he isn't chasing. If she's being purposely elusive and wants him to pursue so she can feel good, that's chasing. Courting is somehow in there too.lol.
^^^^THIS!!!
My sentiments exactly! If a guy waits too long to call or says he's going to call and doesn't and when he finally does, doesn't have a good excuse, I'm on to the next one! I figure he's not that interested or "just not that into me", so I lose interest and can't be bothered.
My sentiments exactly.
I understand where brothers are coming from with not wanting to chase. Too many women are so into being chased that they never want to get caught. I'm not into that. That's why I prefer the term "courting." I like to see a little effort. If I give you my number or the time of day that means I want to talk to you (unless you get creepy, lol). If you make the effort to get to know me I will return the effort. I'm not the kind of woman that ignores calls/texts or any of that foolishness, so do what you will with women like that, lol. And she's giving you the eye and you wade through a crowd to talk to her, only to get played upon arrival, she's rude.
I just worry that everybody is so caught up in not chasing, not courting, not putting forth effort, and not appearing pressed that they're making things more complicated than they are. If you like someone or someone peaks your interest, make it known in whatever way works best for you.
I totally understand what you mean by not jumping through hoops to chase a woman down. How do you know if who you're chasing would be worth it in the end? How do you know if their interested? Coming from a women's perspective we ALL like to feel wanted by a man. To an extent I do beleive a man should pursue enough to allow the woman the comfort in beleiving that he's interested. However, on the flip side, I understand the man's perspective of wanting to know if who he's pursuing is worth the effort or time. Thats like going to college for 4 years spending money, time, and effort to get good grades for a career that pays good money, but in the end you find out that its something you DONT enjoy doing for the rest of your life…What a waste of time!!! I beleive that when it comes to dating, men and women should be proactive in showing interest. A woman that wants to be constantly chased down by a man and not giving him feedback of interest; this type of woman have some personal validation issues that needs to resolved before thinking of wanting a relationship, but thats another story. I beleive that when it comes to dating we all should go in it with the mindset of becoming that persons friend first. I never heard of anyone having a friend chase them down for their friendship. I think us as women should think of dating as getting to know a potential friend..This will eliminate the chase process and enter into going with the flow! #justmyopinion
"I beleive that when it comes to dating we all should go in it with the mindset of becoming that persons friend first. I never heard of anyone having a friend chase them down for their friendship."
While I agree with this, I know a lot of folks will dispute it.
I tried explaining this to people before. I hear "be friends first" but I've found far too many people don't know how to be just that. Being friends also doesn't grant that person extra hands moving furniture, involuntarily having to go to some social event as a date or loaning money. New friends are a difficult road to navigate.
I may go after this topic on 3 Ways on Thursday.
Fun fact. Men look at chasing and courting as two totally different things. Women, it seems, look at them as the same. If I'm not getting anywhere with a woman and I continue to pursue, thats chasing
and wasting my time. If I pursue and a woman shows mutual interest then she is being courted.A man is not going to court a woman if he is not being positively reinforced that his efforts are appreciated and liked/desired.
how do you know if someone likes you and just doesn't want to chase you, or if they're just not that into you? if you ARE showing interest back and returning all their calls and texts, but then it seems like all they do is text you and don't ask you out anymore, what does that mean?
If the person just texts you back and doesn't ask you out anymore, that means you need to have a direct conversation about where things are heading.
I was in that situation last week…. I decided not to read anything into what he said or not. If I question a relationship then something is wrong, it's time to walk away.
When I am attracted to a man, he does not need to chase me. Chasing has a negative connotation that is why the prey runs away… It does not not want to be caught !
Now courting is welcomed, calls, texts and emails are returned, I even initiate them, ask you out etc… I am proactive. The thing is to show interest, so that there is no room for ''translation''.
"The chase" is a two-way street. The woman needs to respond positively to a man's advances (granted they're of respectable intentions), and create a sense of allure. If my advances and obvious signs of interest aren't met with open arms, why would i continue to chase?
I've never been in a situation like this before, but if i had, i would assume she has other options and isn't too concerned about where our interactions could lead. Therefore, ima keep it pushin…
"The chase" is a two-way street. The woman needs to respond positively to a man's advances (granted they're of respectable intentions), and create a sense of allure. If my advances and obvious signs of interest aren't met with open arms, why would i continue to chase?
I've never been in a situation like this before, but if i had, i would assume she has other options and isn't too concerned about where our interactions could lead. Therefore, ima keep it pushin….
"The chase" is a two-way street. The woman needs to respond positively to a man's advances (granted they're of respectable intentions), and create a sense of allure. If my advances and obvious signs of interest aren't met with open arms, why would i continue to chase?
I've never been in a situation like this before, but if i had, i would assume she has other options and isn't too concerned about where our interactions could lead. Therefore, ima keep it pushin.
Rich, I agree. If a woman is interested, she should be returning calls and texts.
After awhile when someone is constantly calling and texting and there's no interest from the intended party, the intended party is probably looking at the dude as a bug-a-boo. Not to say that eventually she won't respond (when she's bored of course…smile).
There are always exceptions. The ex-love of my 20's existence "chased" me; as a matter of fact, I lost his # even though I liked him when we first met I wasn't going to pay him much attention because he had baggage. Lo & behold, 1 yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs, 4 yrs … psh all the way up to now – he's the guy others are measured against.
So, maybe that's the problem; we, women, measure every new acquaintance against our ex-whomever and mix in a lot of movie-inspired idealism and antiquated views of what dating should be and BAM you have men chasing women down the street for their numbers & to try to date (or bone [just wanted to use that term]) and women acting all aloof (because that's what the messages tell us we ought to be & we ought to have a bevy of men courting us – like life is a freaking Jane Austin novel).
Ok so IDK if all of that makes cohesive sense but … its all staying, cause that's how effed up we are … we have dual and competing expectations of dating, and sometimes (often) we don't even want to date – we want to get all carnal and have ALL of the benefits then attempt to place our experiences (round peg) within this old standard that we're still trying to live up to (square hole).
"So, maybe that’s the problem; we, women, measure every new acquaintance against our ex-whomever and mix in a lot of movie-inspired idealism and antiquated views of what dating should be and BAM you have men chasing women down the street for their numbers & to try to date (or bone [just wanted to use that term]) and women acting all aloof (because that’s what the messages tell us we ought to be & we ought to have a bevy of men courting us – like life is a freaking Jane Austin novel)."
If we men followed the advice of romantic comedies, we'd be face down on the concrete with a cop's knee in our back…(e.g. the record store scene in Love Jones)
But you see, the problem is that in romantic movies the women end up in these idealic situations with the greatest love/lover EVER and it all turns out good somehow. It's unrealistic … and LMAO@ the thought of all men (and women) acting like life is a romantic comedy.
If that happened life would be too much like a Shakespearean comedy of errors … it'd be HORRID.
You're only half a douche.No one wants to chase anyone. People have way too much pride now to running around like a dog chasing folk. Guys don't wanna chase the girls. Girls feel it's the guy's "job". So now, everyone is at a standstill, getting absolutely nowhere.
I'm against text messaging as "courting". Because I don't care what anyone says, before cell phones and all these other retarded things of quicker communication, getting to know someone & courting was happening. Face-to-face communication is made out to be such a hassle because a lot of
youpeople are so effing lazing. I have way too much to say about communication but I'll put a cap on it for now. Getting someone's attention to no avail has indeed turned me off and I've been asked, "What happened? Why did you just stop talking to me? Well I get bored easily. Damn..Once "courting" does happen, there's a line some people cross. The thin, oh so fine, line of being pushy and being persistent/determined. And (-_-*) to those line steppers.
That's all for now…
I expect a man to pursue me if he is interested. It's the natural state of things. However, I am finding that men these days are lazy. They want to put in minimal effort but they want great reward. You ever heard the saying "You reap what you sow". If you aren't sowing anything you aren't going to benefit from a harvest.
Now, in the scenario mentioned above the young lady said the dudes were calling sporadically and only texting her. I think, she is correct in assuming those men are not that interested in her.
I personally, return calls if I am interested..but, I don't think alot of men these days are putting in enough effort to peak a woman's full interest beyond the first initial contact. Just like you lose interest we do too. If we don't hear from you but every other week or so..soon, we are going to forget who you are…. and another man is going to come along who is calling and showing more interest then you are.
I love your dissent girl.
"If we don’t hear from you but every other week or so..soon, we are going to forget who you are…. and another man is going to come along who is calling and showing more interest then you are."
If it were that simple, there wouldn't be so many single people out there. I see what you're saying about men being lazy, however there are a lot of women that operate with a sense of entitlement when it comes to dating. In the scenario, my amiga was complaining about the behavior of these dudes but she wasn't really doing anything to help the situation. She was just sitting back and waiting because that's how she thought it should be. What she failed to realize and what I eventually told her was that she wasn't the only employer accepting applications. If she wanted the career all-stars, she needed to be a bit more responsive herself.
I just don't get it. All of the men on this post I daresay are driven in everyday life as far as careers, school, etc..but, when it comes to relationships and dating….there is a lackadaisical approach. I am just saying…..any good thing is worth pursuing.
As far as the young lady not being as responsive. She did respond. When they called she did answer her phone. She could have just chucked the full deuces on those brothas. She answered her phone..I daresay there was nothing much to the conversation..sounds like she didn't even get asked out…..what is she supposed to do. Sometimes we get tired of explaining things you already know. Nobody has to explain to you how to go after your career or ambitions..why do we have to explain to you how to pursue us….it's just the current sate of laziness and men in dating.
Waves church fan and yells… AMEN!
Very well said!
QueenT: "All of the men on this post I daresay are driven in everyday life as far as careers, school, etc..but, when it comes to relationships and dating….there is a lackadaisical approach. I am just saying…..any good thing is worth pursuing."
But this is the issue, my Queen. Upon meeting a woman, a guy isn't sure how much to pursue a woman he doesn't know.
A more accurate analogy is a young man selecting a career. As a youngster, a man knows he wants to have a successful career, and wants to eventually settle down and have a family. But there is a time that he has yet to select a major, or a career. That is when he is looking at options. He likes numbers, so he could go into economics, or finance, or engineering, or perhaps a college professor teaching advance math. And after receiving the degree, there are still several paths you can take, many companies you can work for, and you could even start your own business. All of these paths are attractive options, but a guy needs to analyze each one before pursuing a certain one.
What I'm saying is a lot of women think they should be "chased" at a stage when a guy hasn't even selected her yet. You may be a great choice, but their are other great options too.
It's simple supply and demand.
If a man wants a certain job, he has to go to school, get experience, network, get in where he fits in and work his way up to said job. You want that job, you WORK for it or you get a subpar job.
If a man wants a wife in this society, he can play the field without care until he hits 29, figure out that he wants a wife, start trying on wives til one fits, getting full benefits from each of them along the way, and be married by 30 if he wants to be. We're a dime a dozen, even the greatest of us. We're often ready for marriage before they are, so when they decide to be ready…ain't nothing but four words and one vended knee separating them from their goal. There are just too many decent women that will marry decent men. And not enough decent men that will "settle for" decent women.
I'm not really feeling froggy, but let the slaughter commence…
Even if they don't really work towards being husband material, a decent man can still snag a great wife. And as long as we want it more and sooner than them and keep acting like wives before we are, it will remain this way.
aint nothing lazy about me taking Her out on a date yet getting the second one is like pulling teeth (after she proclaims it was a must to see me again)-she obviously has options so whatever, some women want to be "courted" as if it is a relationship yet treat the guy like an a booty call. well i'm cool with that just lose my number
but i should continue with this chick despite after a supposedly great date she stiil returns ALL forms of communications…wait she doesnt return any…i'm still waiting on the reply from last weeks voice mail
Queen T, you hit the nail on the head.
If a man wants a wife in this society, he can play the field without care until he hits 29, figure out that he wants a wife, start trying on wives til one fits, getting full benefits from each of them along the way, and be married by 30 if he wants to be. Says more about the women than the man.
We’re a dime a dozen, even the greatest of us. We’re often ready for marriage before they are, so when they decide to be ready Common misconception
…ain’t nothing but four words and one vended knee separating them from their goal. Again says that women are ready to jump. Thats another problem.
There are just too many decent women that will marry decent men. And not enough decent men that will “settle for” decent women. Plenty of decent men, plenty of decent women. Plenty of people that THINK that they are decent and aren't really.
Amen. Throwing down the mic!
A woman likes to be pursued. A man likes to feel like he's not wastng his time.
Communication is the key. I know if I call someone and they don't return my call or if i send a text and it's not returned within a resonable amount of time, then I too would assume they weren't interested.
I don't think you're a douche at all.
Honestly, I hate being "chased" because usually it's a stalker situation where I've given the dude numerous obvious signs–not returning phone calls, telling dude I'm not interested–and the dude still won't go away.
I do, however, enjoy being "courted." Courting is simply showing the woman that you're interested in her and making some effort. I don't expect you to call me a million times (or even twice) after I failed to call you back within a reasonable time because usually that means I'm not interested–I'm bored and moving on. Dudes come off strange and desperate to me when they've called me several times and sent several texts asking where I am…Um I'm still around…I'm just not interested so please get some pride and walk away.
lol Aernic. "usually it’s a stalker situation where I’ve given the dude numerous obvious signs–not returning phone calls, telling dude I’m not interested–and the dude still won’t go away."
Yes, if all of those occurs, I am definitely not interested in the guy. It becomes annoying.
I agree with this post very much. If you're interested you'll show it, if not you'll show that too. I'm observant enough to know if you are or not. If I call or text and you don't answer I too will give you a day or so to call back before I try again, but I'm definitely not going to call every 20 minutes, and I don't leave voice messages. Hell, I treat my friends like that. Haven't talked to a couple of those chicks in a month or so. *Kanye Shrug*
I don't have time to chase anyone, I have sh*t to do.
I read some of these comments at like 4AM, but I don't recall and haven't read any of the current.
I met a girl who I thought was the equivalent of the Lebron James of my undergraduate university. She was a freshman who you could see by the time she was a senior would be hands down the baddest girl at the school. When I first met her, she said she was going back to her dorm, I asked her for her number, she said, no, I was mad, rejection hurts. Five minutes later, I was like, "Nah, i'm going to go get that." I ran out my office and walked her home, if she didn't want to give me her number, i'd find a way to talk to her. I chased that girl for a year after that, I even asked my chapter advisor who happened to be frat, to let me talk to her while I was on, because I was not going to be moved. I chased her for over a year, and when I finally wifed her down, I was happy as hell.
As I always say, a lot of times men tell you how they approach dating, they're not tricking, or chasing, or things they won't put up with… I always shrug it off because that tells me something about the women they actually end up with. (Depending on how far they're willing to take that, i'm not attacked no one.)
I feel like, i've chased women, but only because my type is usually the best available option on the draft board or free agency board. You're going to have to court, chase and woo these women, they simply know what their worth is. If that girl had told me to call her at 9:05, so not to waste her minutes and not to interfere with her study schedule that would have been it. If she told me, I leave for class at 8:15 everyday, and I have an 8:30, yeah i'd be at that door to walk her to class everyday.
Maybe that's tricking… I been tricking my way into some of the best women ever, for a long time, so i'm not sure what that means.
This is how you pursue a woman..take notes and learn gentlemen.
I dont see whats to learn, again there are women frontin' using courting to garner the attention they otherwise wouldnt get from men
and only if she is CLEAR and a relationship is whats wanted by BOTH then a man can pursue however again there are plenty of women who want to be courted as if they want to be in a relationship but they getting off on the attention.
besides any woman sending mixed signals yet claims to what to be courted is a fool…what job would hire you after you just sat there waiting for your skill set to be noticed?
THIS! I love a man that knows what he wants and that will go after that without being afraid. This is an attractive quality and it tells me a lot about his determination.
Pride has to go when it comes to matters of the heart…Pride has no place in love AT ALL. You will not sustain any relationship with that level of thinking. Yield. This word is key!
I would hate to see some of you in an argument…sounds like a lot of people that can’t give without getting
There's a lot of flip flopping going on around hurr.
*Pushes like button*
Ok. I get this… kinda. You saw something you wanted and went after it.
What other than her looks (aka her potentially being the baddest) made her worth it all the hassle initially?
This version is nice too. I haven't seen this type of guy in a long time…where are you in a museum?
Wow! Impressive……and rare.
I may have to print this out and email it to a guy from my phone when he texts me on occasion, LOL.
Before the cosigns and amens get too out of hand, keep this line in mind:
"I met a girl who I thought was the equivalent of the Lebron James of my undergraduate university. She was a freshman who you could see by the time she was a senior would be hands down the baddest girl at the school."
Lebrons can have this attitude, but there aren't a lot Lebrons in the league, and it's a 95% chance you aren't one. If you are a Carlos Arroyo, don't expect guys to chase you too hard, especially before he even gets to know you personally.
I'm a good guy and a damn good catch, but I also realize that I'm no (insert rich, powerful, famous, handsome guy here), so I know there is some effort that I have to put in when competing with other guys. Yet many women who are fives and sixes think guys should hound them like the Terminator after Sarah Conner.
Though I agree with your sentiments…your opinion of someone (mine as well) being bad is just that…your opinion. If a woman feels she deserves that treatment, however foolish, that's her right. And if you don't agree you should move on. If she's wrong, hopefully she'll realize it before she gets that 30th cat. If she's right, she'll get what she wants/deserves…a man that is willing to make her feel wanted.
I think people, men and women alike, are willing to go after what they want. The key is them actually wanting it…not looking for a temporary fix or some type of momentary satisfaction. Who wants to invest for that? If you want something of substance, you have to possess substance yourself. And even if you don't think a person is worth a certain amount of effort, that doesn't mean they agree. For all you know, they could have a series of men that have courted them and created that sense of entitlement. Doesn't mean they're wrong…just means they're not for you if you don't want to do it.
TiffNicky: "If a woman feels she deserves that treatment, however foolish, that’s her right. And if you don’t agree you should move on. If she’s wrong, hopefully she’ll realize it before she gets that 30th cat. If she’s right, she’ll get what she wants/deserves…a man that is willing to make her feel wanted… And even if you don’t think a person is worth a certain amount of effort, that doesn’t mean they agree. For all you know, they could have a series of men that have courted them and created that sense of entitlement. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong…just means they’re not for you if you don’t want to do it."
Cosign. I agree that every man courting/dating a woman he is interested in should make her feel wanted, make her feel special, and make her know that there is a reason why he prefers her to the other dozens of women he has a chance with. A woman should never deal with a man that doesn’t want her.
But in regards to this “chasing” nonsense, some women really think that because she knows who she is and how wonderful of a person she is, that the guy that just met her knows who she is! Isn’t learning about someone the whole point of dating? So what sense does it make to expect a guy to chase after an unrequiting woman when he quite literally knows nothing about her, especially when he has options?
Gabrielle Unions will get chased because of their looks, and then a guy tries to learn more about her to see if she’s a keeper (assuming he’s not just trying to sleep with her). Jazmine Sullivans will get approached, but is she has a haughty attitude and thinks a guy needs to move heaven and earth to chase her, and he doesn’t even know her last name, the guy will opt for the Rihanna, the Monica, or the Tamera Mowry that he met.
Agreed! Especially in regards to the need for time to elapse before determing level of interest. Hopefully, the time meets the expectations of both parties…
Treated!!! Lol jk I like this comment very much.
Not going to fully agree or disagree with you. You went after something that you wanted with diligence and got it. The key part is the amount of effort that you thought was necessary and the amount that you could put up with.
"As I always say, a lot of times men tell you how they approach dating, they’re not tricking, or chasing, or things they won’t put up with… I always shrug it off because that tells me something about the women they actually end up with."
Uh Huh!!!!
Never Say Never because once you meet "The One"….. *hmph*
And it's always funny in the end to hear the "How They Met/Got Together Story" because that same man/woman who said they weren't doing this that and the 3rd did All of This and Then Some to get with "The One".
I completely agree with you and the author. The author is right in saying that he wont chase because many females in today's society may only want guys to follow them so they can add them to the list of guys they have. also texting has become such a big part of our culture that most count it as a form of effective communication. I on the other hand, do not believe that texting even counts as regular communication. for example, a guy I was interested in and I texted for over 1.5 years and could barely hold a good conversation when we met. After a while I became sick and tired of it and just ended it. The funny thing is I had great conversation with his close friends and after he left our college, I am still great friends with his friends and we are all 4th years.
Do I wanna be courted yes if I can see you and we go out and I get to know you, I want a guy who can make me laugh. However, I want guys to know when I am not interested. For example, if I don't respond to your text, unlike some girls I dont want to be chased, I want you to quit texting me because I honestly don't want to talk to you. sorry. IF I want a guy's number, I will get it myself or give it to you. If at the end of a conversation you ask me for my number after I say bye, Im not interested, I only gave you because I think saying "no thank you is mean." Im glad for the post. It was interesting and so are the responses. But is no one care about anything I have to say the most important message I want to leave for the guys here is this,
"THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE WORTH GOING AFTER, NO MATTER WHAT YOU WILL NEVER REGRET IT. IF YOU MEET SOMEONE AND YOU GO AFTER THEM, YOU MIGHT LEARN NOT ONLY ABOUT YOURSELF BUT THEM ALSO AND NO MATTER HOW OLD WE ARE, WE ALL NEED THE LESSONS."
*peace*
Based on the comments, I have a question for the ladies who want men to chase them. How does he know if he's chasing or harassing if you are unresponsive? Is the difference between a man chasing and being thirsty just based on how a woman feels?
Nope. And that's the problem…
If a woman wants to be chased, then there is no real way for a man to differentiate himself (whom she may really like) from the other men (whom she thinks are 'bug-a-boos'). Hence the reason the 'chase' is flawed. What is it that you are hoping to gain from him chasing you and you acting as if you aren't interested until a certain point? Are you aware there are lots of other women on these streets & innawebs that would gladly return his affection?
I had the same question as Hugh. I was noticing a pattern myself.
I don't like the term "chase"..it sounds like we are running away. I prefer "pursue". I don't think anybody is talking being harassed. If I gave you my number..there must be some initial interest…I'm just saying, go after a woman you like the same way you would your career goals or anything else you desired. There is a fine line but don't act like you don't know what I am talking about.
I totally agree. I hate that word "chase" too. It makes it seem like the dude is Wile E. Coyote and I'm the RoadRunner…it just sounds wrong.
I don't mind pursuing, and I did it myself with my current girlfriend. But when pursuing, you should be gaining ground on what you're after. Initial interest gets your foot in the door, but women lose interest as well, even when a guy is doing everything right.
I know what you're talking about, but also keep in mind that there are plenty of girls on the girl tree, with a new crop every year. No matter how much of a good thing you may be, there are literally millions of good things out there.
I can't speak for anyone else…but if I'm interested in someone I'm not going to be unresponsive, thus he won't be harrassing me.
I'm not interested in being chased…hell, I'm not running from something that I'm attracted to or interested in. So that's a mute point. At the end of the day, it's about communicating your intent and overall interest. That too is a part of courting (which is what I want). Make your intentions know, and be consistent.
Is having someone's attention too easily a turn off?
Not necessarily…doing too much is a turn off. After a week and 2 phone convos and getting hit with the "I miss you" is just O.D. As a person who doesn't like to be rushed, too much too soon is a no-go for me.
At this point, I think the chase is a bunch of bull. Everybody has their guard up and is either playing some sort of Jedi mind tricks or are so lackidaisical about the courting/getting to know you process that it comes off as being uninterested. With that said, the moment I feel the scales tipping and I feel like I'm putting in more work…I fade to black.
Oh, and if you ask me out…and then tell me to plan the date. FOH w/ that sh*t.
"Oh, and if you ask me out…and then tell me to plan the date. FOH w/ that sh*t."
Is that what's hot in the streets nowadays?
I guess so. Not the 1st time it happened (most recently was about 2 weeks ago). I don't understand, b/c if I request to spend time w/ someone…I have a plan in mind, ya know?
Not having something set up makes me feel as though you are not interested b/c you couldn't even take the time to come up with something. *BBM FacePalm*
You know, I'm not sure how I feel about a guy telling me to plan a date. On one hand, I totally agree with you, LaLaBakir, about ("Not having something set up makes me feel as though you are not interested b/c you couldn’t even take the time to come up with something") this, BUT, at the same time, if I plan the date, I'm definitely going to do something that I want to do or go where I want to go.
I'm still on the fence, but I totally can see it your way too.
@New2Natural
I understand where you're coming from. Maybe if it wasn't the first date, I'd be okay with it. But the 1st date dog?! *shakes head* Maybe if it was approached a different way, I wouldn't be so adamant about it.
To me, it just reeks of laziness and that you're really just looking to beat. I'm willing to bet that if I told him to come over and watch a movie, son would've been over to my crib ASAP w/ a Trojan hoping he got lucky.
Not having something set up makes me feel as though you are not interested b/c you couldn’t even take the time to come up with something.
I concur!!!
I mean really if dude ask you out and let's say he's a little rusty in the game all he has to do is ask if you have any venues/places you would like to go or what your interests are — plain and simple.
Telling the female to plan 1st date is NOT COOL. *ThumbsDown*
@GirlSixx
EXACTLY!!
Dude didn't even say, "Oh, I was thinking we could do X,Y,Z and wasn't too sure. What do you think?"
No, he throw the ball back in my court and I left it there. I'm not beat.
@LaLaBakir
"I’m willing to bet that if I told him to come over and watch a movie, son would’ve been over to my crib ASAP w/ a Trojan hoping he got lucky."
LMAO! No doubt!! I'm leaning toward laziness too, BUT if a guy is THAT lazy, then I'm going to make sure we're doing the most!! He'll never ask me to plan a date again, LOL.
LMAO!!!!
*rubs chin* Excellent point! I was just too through and said eff it. I was igging him so much, he was like "Do you have a man?" o___O
1st off…w/ that he's accusing me of lying (he asked if I had a man and my answer was no…which is true)
2ndly…just b/c you ask me out doesn't mean I have to say yes! Yes, I'm single…but that doesn't mean I have to give every man moving a chance.
"2ndly…just b/c you ask me out doesn’t mean I have to say yes! Yes, I’m single…but that doesn’t mean I have to give every man moving a chance."
Truth.com. A lot of these guys are so used to desperate women who are doing too much that they expect all women to say yes, LOL. Then give you the side eye and interrogate you if you decline, LOL. SMDH!
“To me, it just reeks of laziness and that you’re really just looking to beat. I’m willing to bet that if I told him to come over and watch a movie, son would’ve been over to my crib ASAP w/ a Trojan hoping he got lucky.”
I shouldn’t be laughing so heartily at this, but I am.
Glad I could amuse you *looks at Slim w/ squinty eyes*
LOL
There's nothing wrong with this. What you wrote is and should be comon sense. I actually get turned off by men who chase too hard. I'll even go further and say that not "sweating" a woman will make her sweat you more. I think your friend is referring to men who put little effort in when trying to get to know a woman…like texting. Texting is good during work hours but if you're trying to get to know me, we need to talk. Some people can be arrogant in their approach to dating. Frankly, some think they're the sh*t so they put little effort in and expect the woman/man to fall into their lap. If you are not a 9 or 10 in the looks dept, you really shouldn't expect people to chase you…and looks only carries one for so long. Getting to know someone takes time and effort. The pay-off is worth it.
If you are not a 9 or 10 in the looks dept, you really shouldn’t expect people to chase you…and looks only carries one for so long.
This.
And now thanks to Yo Gotti hooping and hollering about 5 Star Chicks & Mike Jones who needs a dime that's top of the line… every Jane, Sue & Sally thinks she's a 10.
Yes. I just found a way to blame hip-hop. Lol.
To Most Flyyest:
I'm pretty sure the inflation of female stock resulting in utter public malfeasance and private miscreants is directly a result of Beyonce Knowles.
That song, Diva, just went to far. Single Ladies, too. The list goes on all the way back to Destiny's Child. Peep how, Kelly and Michelle tried the same thing and now they are doing the 2-6PM shift on the radio in Europe. (That speaks to that point about how women have to know where they fall in the grand scheme of things above.)
I have to give her credit though, i'm all for self-empowerment of women. But, i'm just saying you can't blame Yo Gotti.
True story. I'm not blaming only Yo Gotti & Mike Jones. I'm blaming every ridiculous song like that and the women who believe it. I'm blaming parents for lying to their children. Alla dat. So sure we can add Beyonce and Mama Tina to the list. I'm down w/ that.
(Some) men need to know where they fall too. There are some dudes who walk around misdiagnosing their own sense of self. Who can we blame this on? Just because a dude has a stick and balls + a certain job or they went to a certain school or have access to certain things or places women are expected to flock or something..all that stuff is fine, but just like the woman who thinks she's a dime, there's way more to it than that.
Anita Baker – "Fairytales"
@Flyyest
Absolutely. Denial denial denial. I blame hip hop, keri hilson, wendy williams and soulja boy for this too. People just don't know where they lie in the eye appeal scale. I read some of the stuff people type in blogs, then look at the avi and smh. We all aint Halle Burrys but people please let's be realistic.
@MissJenkins
You reminded me of this guy in my office building. He's one of those tall, muscular, chocolate skin brothas with degrees to wipe your shoes with. Problem is, when he walks by you, he looks great…but if you look into his face, he's really not that handsome. Yet he thinks he is tha sh*t. I tried to hook him up with a coworker (cute girl)and he said some foul sh*t. Wow. He is def mis-diagnosed.
I didn't want his sidditty self-hatin, mis-diagnosed a** anyway 😛
Wow! Delurk and join the commentary. Yeah he doesn't like his women black, we guessed it right.
IMO, I think that if there is a connection, none of this will matter anyway. If you are truly feeling someone, you WILL jump thru those hoops.
It's not about chasing a person, but about not being afraid to let a person know how you feel. This requires some level of risk and since egos have become so fragile today, it is hard for people to fathom having to put themselves out there not knowing the results.
Some people have to warm up to you, some are just so dang busy, making that phone call is the last thing on the mind, or sometimes they are not interested YET. Anyone that I give my number too or vice versa was obviously worth something, and therefore until I confirm that their just not that into me, I will make myself somewhat available.
The older I get the less time I seem to have to talk with friends and even family, so excuse me if a new dude that I just met that only called me once is not on top of my list of things to do. I also could have deleted your message without even hearing it and since I don't blindly call unfamiliar numbers back…thank goodness for persistent people.
I called my husband first after getting his business card from a friend. I left a message, he didn't call back. I called him back two days later and we've been together since….I am glad my initial hurt feelings didn't stop me from making that call again. I love to hear him tell me how he had a major crush (not his words of course) on me before my calls and how he is glad I called back. He often asked am I glad I called back—-YES YES YES!
But see my question here is a connection based on what? How he or she looks? I'm not sure why he should travel to Ghana and back b/c the girl he sees is FINE… lol. You know what I mean? I mean courting is the initial phase… it's getting the contact information and seeing what they are about.
If he subsequently learns that she is about major things, then he can decide if she is worth hoops to jump through and she may even require such – but that'll be his decision to make on what he now knows about her versus how she looked in them skin tight jeans at the club.
NO not the shallow it’s all about looks connection. Chemistry is REAL. It has little to do with looks and more to do with something deeper (can't say what exactly that is because I have no clue). You just know!
Have you ever had a serious crush on someone? Was it all about looks? Hopefully not. There is a major difference between that feeling and the feeling I get when I see Morris Chestnut on tv.
Eh. I don't know. Connection w/ someone you barely know (i.e., you don't yet have their full name and contact info meaning he/she hasn't even said 2 words to you yet)… possibly.
Yes, I've had a serious crush on someone. I felt the connection/spark but I was also infatuated w/ how he looked/presented himself. Just b/c I felt it, doesn't mean he did…
Hence my issue w/ chasing… you don't know enough about me to want to chase me other than what I look like and the potential connection you feel on the other side.
Ugh! Too many meetings and reports to write today. But:
a) cosign on everything
b) I too am part of the "I ain't chasin' you Club"
c) WTF is a caramel douche?
d) Hi Sane :0]
*waves* Hi Eddie, hope you're day isn't all meetings and whatnot.
I agree with your statement. These days it should go both ways.
Me, if I don't hear from you for two weeks, I am assuming you are dead. I will call to see if you have a pulse but after that I am chuckin' the deuce sign.
I lose interest whomever said "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is a liar! I will move on.
"I will call to see if you have a pulse…"
Really? If I haven't heard from a guy in two weeks, I'm sure someone who cares has been notified, LOL.
In two weeks' time, I've forgotten that dude's name…
What do you think of the chase at this point in your life? Do you prefer to hunt or be hunted? Has getting someone’s attention easily ever turned you off? What is courting in 2010? Do you have rules around initially contacting someone you just met? Am I really a caramel douche?
The Chase? What's that? If I'm interested in a man who says he's interested in me, he won't have to chase me. However, minimal effort will get you minimal results. I think some women have allowed men to do the least, and have then given these men the most, so now these man-childs are spoiled thinking the bare minimum of effort is enough. Yeah… NO.
Rules for initial contact? Do not text me, because I will not text you, at least not initially. I still believe in telephonic communication, so I expect a call. Texting is ok after initial communication, but should not be the main form of communication in the dating process.
Do I prefer to hunt or be hunted? I don't even like to use that terminology regarding the dating process. It takes the humanity out of it.
This entire comment co-sign (cubed)!
"I think some women have allowed men to do the least, and have then given these men the most, so now these man-childs are spoiled thinking the bare minimum of effort is enough. Yeah… NO."
Oh damn I didn't see this before I wrote my comment — I basically said the same thing. Whomp Whomp
*PutsE-SharpieDown*
I love the diversity of perspective on this topic!
To respond to an earlier comment, I think there's a difference between someone knowing their worth and overvaluing. That'll probably get me in trouble. That's fine.
Looking through my significant relationship history, every woman I've dated has been a result of a semi-equal initial interest. If I reached out, she responded. That made me wanna reach out again. She'd respond. Then I'd start doing things without thinking about the reciprocity. If that's the safe way to play it, then I guess I'm just safe.lol. Getting into a relationship with someone can be considered risky in and of itself.
Everybody wants a romantic movie story, but doesn't know how to act.
"To respond to an earlier comment, I think there’s a difference between someone knowing their worth and overvaluing. That’ll probably get me in trouble. That’s fine."
THIS! I think in this lies so much. People value things differently, and that's ok. But in knowing that you have to accept that some things may not be because of it. So you may think someone deserves 60% effort and they think they deserve 85%. You can argue/justify your logic however you want, but at the end of the day the two don't match so there will be issues. Who's to say who missed out or what could have been…that's life. And that's why folk are single. People take calculated risks…some good, some bad…and live with the consequences.
I think the definition of "chase" varies for some. I want to be pursued…not chased. That would mean calling more than once instead of texting. I think Dr. J's point is if you want a 10, chances are you will have to pursue her. Why? Because if she's a 10, she probably gets hit on all the time and others want her just as bad as you. I see your point in that you don't want to do stunts and shows to get the girl. I just hope that you mean chasing and not pursuing which is needed to get what you want in life whether it be a woman or a job, etc. I just see too many people cancel a person for little reason. Maybe she didn't get your call or didn't see you at the party, try again.
Ooooooooh! I see what you did there! –> "Everybody wants a romantic movie story, but doesn’t know how to act." R-r-r-r-respect!
I have a story or two, LOL.
This guy that I met out approached me and asked for my number. He called me on my way home and we had a nice conversation and he said he would call me the next day.
Well the next day was like a month later and I had long forgotten him. I didn't recognize the number and he'd leave a message if it were that important. He left a message and it took me a week to even remember who that dude was. I called him back (out of courtesy) and we talked a little bit more and I wasn't interested by then. I figured he just wasn't that into me, which he obviously wasn't.
Dude blew me UP for about a month straight. I even went to Philly for a month and he was still calling! He missed his chance. I don't do dudes who fade to black and then suddenly bring in the light. GTFOH!
SMH…I don't even have anything to say about this f*ckery
I'm kind of old fashioned. I believe in courting a woman. I also believe that a lot of women need to learn how to be courted.
Courting, when done properly on both sides, establishes boundaries, sets expectations, and gives the relationship a mutually understood purpose and direction. It can help to prevent some of the ambiguity that prevails so many of our pseudo relationships these days.
I'd venture that, if you've never courted a woman, it's possible that it's because you've never met a woman who was, in your mind, worth courting.
And I agree with all the fellas who said 'chasing' is for losers and simps.
Good post.
I'm so tired of co-signing!! LOL…but I had to on this one, Most.
Can you elaborate on learning how to be courted?
Yeah, I think that a woman who knows how to be courted understands how to show that she is interested in a man without leading him to believe that a relationship is her life's only interest. To me, it seems like so many women make finding a man the most important thing they have going on at every single second of the day. So, when a man shows a certain measure of interest, they do one of two things, they either start planning the wedding, picking out baby names and acting generally thirsty… like Brandy. Or they try and 'play the game.' By that I mean, not answer when he calls just because they want him to show how interested he is, wait a couple days to respond to text messages etc etc etc. That's a total turnoff. A woman who knows how to be courted will gradually prioritize a man with whom she shares a mutual interest into her life. She'll let him know exactly where he stands. Quick example:
I met my wife in June, my birthday is in July. Somewhere in our first conversation, I told her my birthday was coming up. Didn't think anything of it. We went on talking for a couple weeks, conversations were never shorter than a half hour but never longer than 1 hour. After about a month, I was ready to ask her on a date, but was on the fence about how interested in me she was. My birthday came up, she sent me a text at 12:00 am on the dot saying happy birthday. It was a subtle way of letting me know that she was thinking about me, and that my interest in her was reciprocated; it gave me the energy and desire to keep pushing forward in trying to build a relationship.
Maybe not such a quick example… but, you all get the point I hope.
What you described is all that I'm asking and was thinking with the post.Good ish.
Ahhhh the ole bait-n-chase game……….
It's Not How It Used to Be the Roles have gotten reversed these past few years and it really hurts my soul because some women are making it too easy for men to just fall back and do NOTHING while reaping EVERYTHING.
What is Courting in 2010???
BBM, texting, g-chat, webcam, skype with an occasional dinner, movie, bar/lounge, etc.
"What is courting 2010?" should be a post. I cosign that some women make it harder for others. Why would a guy put in effort to get to know you when other women will just give it to him with no effort. smh
"Why would a guy put in effort to get to know you when other women will just give it to him with no effort."
Word. And not for nothing I can't even be mad at dude.
what is courting 2010 is indeed a post idea. One that I'll end up running with. I purposely didn't define it in the post.lol.
Why would a guy put in effort to get to know you when other women will just give it to him with no effort.
Because he thinks she is special and he values how she's different from the other women.
How so? Because at this stage, you don't know her… you are merely trying to get to know her.
See… Slim got us all befuddled up in here b/c a lot of us are working w/ different definitions of "court."
I don't follow. I was talking about men who don't put in the time to get to know a woman because he get's other women without having to put the time in.
@FLYYest
Not exactly.
It's the same ways a woman expects a guy to notice HOW she's different unless she's willing to outright say that she's the same as every other woman in the world.
Nope, from what I understand, women want to be considered to be special. Well, in order to be special to someone they must see you as special. The reasons can be stupid or corny/cheesy but we control how we view things. We control our reality. Romance is a shared dream. #truestory
Now, if women are going to subscribe to the fairly tale romance out of thin air ish, then don't complain when I guy rolls with it.
Never satisfied. LOL
@SmartFoxGirl,
It's not always about the path of least work. Maybe the person just isn't worth it. I dare say that you'll find many more people who aren't worth the extra than are.
If he feels, "Yo, she ain't worth the extra" then she isn't worth the extra.
I also say that YOU have no control over the reasons someone else views you as special.
@MeteorMan
I'm not sure I follow. Yes, I want him to treat me like I'm special. Yes, I expect that my looks are special to him if he chose to talk to me instead of one of the other 50-11 women that surround him on a daily basis. Maybe I don't subscribe to the fantasy you speak of…
@FLYYest
Of course you don't… I'm not courting you.
Best believe, we notice more than just your dress and physique.
There's mannerisms, how you interact with YOUR friends, facial expressions, etc…
I know if her and all her friends look and dress alike, there must be SOMETHING else to make her stand out. There's indeed a filtering process. However, if you want to be considered to be indistinguishable from the 50-11 women in his life then that is possible too. Just ask… We control our reality. lol
[If he feels, “Yo, she ain’t worth the extra” then she isn’t worth the extra.
I also say that YOU have no control over the reasons someone else views you as special.] ^^^^THIS^^^^
I see your point.
I have two mottos on the subject of chasing:
"The boy has to ask the girl to dance"
and
"Chase him until he chases you"
Let's hope that adequately summarizes my feelings on the subject because my fingers are too cold to type anything else.
Buahahaha! I know you're loving this weather. I cancelled my shopping plans for yesterday once I saw windchill of -20 degrees, and a mere 10 mins shoveling left me feeling like my fingers were about to fall off. Today wasn't much better, and I couldn't stay away from work forever. Oh, Canada.
There was never a RULE put in place on this. If you (man or woman) want something you go after it with all the determination you would anything else worth having.
Just do you and stop telling your business to everybody. What you may do to pursue someone, your friend may deem over board. So what if you had to call her 5 times before she called you back….AND? So what he asked you out and didn't plan anything? Real life is complicated and not always going to be on your terms. Go with the flow and stop being afraid of where it will take you. We all know when someone is genuinely interested anyway and you can't tell this with ONE OR TWO PHONE CALLS!
People are complex, you have no idea how shy, and clueless people really are. All this one-sided speculation about how to do something that it takes two people to do is weird. How do you know if someone is interested if you are too chicken to stick around and find out?
Aaaaaaannnnnd scene.
I hear a lot of females emoting from the position that it is expected (read "a man's responsibility") for men to show a certain level of activity in showing/proving interest in a woman. Reaping what you sow and thus forth… Where and what are women's responsibilities and activities to prove interest in a man? The Chase (courting) may be a culturally accepted & practiced ritual & belief, especially among women but belief IS NOT always TRUTH or REALITY. Full of want need and desire with no knowledge of self.
I won't lie… I like the "courtship" more than I do the actual relationship. When both parties are witty and showing off their best sides and you aren't too bogged down with each other. It's cute and exhilarating and flirting just gets me all excited. What I HATE though is trying to figure people out. If you send nothing but texts and bbms and I have to try and decipher what we're doing… I'm not down and ill walk away. I need something else than a text message. Not saying you have to call every night but a skype chat or something occasionally so I can remember what you sound like. Nothing beats a sexy phone voice 🙂
And btw, the nebulous boundaries betwixt prostitute and non-prostitute (female) is very interesting to me. Madd random but IDGAF.
Hose turn your side eye blind. __ 0
Both men and women have a problem with appearing vulnerable. Some men use texts to avoid voicing aloud how they really feel. Sorry, but texts are not enough to even start a friendship (nevermind a relationship). Unless you know a person, some texts can be read the wrong way because you are unfamiliar with a person's tone. I'm not saying that guys need to call 24/7, but show some interest if you are actually interested. You can use those anytime minutes, anytime.
I believe that courtship takes two people. Which is most of the sentiment around here.
Then here's people bandwagoning the idea of a guy endlessly pursuing a woman without her being responsive. Usually the SAME people who co-sign with my first statement.
Why is that? I have the answer… This will kill ya'll:
Women like to be bothered. Well, not exactly like that, not in the drama and talk about your momma type of bothering, but it says something to have someone stuck in your mind for trying even if at that moment you're not interested. Why would you think about someone you're not interested in? I don't know… Ask a woman.
It's funny though. Women LOVE to be chased and pursued endlessly by the guys they actually want. That gives the impression that they want someone to chase them. No they actually want specific persons to chase/pursue, not any random guy. BIG difference.
Kinda like how they smile and converse with a guy they're not interested in and expect the guy they notice across the room to notice them. On some "He should've known" tip.
FYI: I had a friend that "chased" women that weren't interested and always read into things as some sign. He finally stopped "chasing" and started considering that it isn't worth his time. He used that new free time to find him a woman who was responsive. Now he's married with children and happier than a mug. Just a thought…
On the slick though, women subscribe to the fairy tale craziness and this is one example. It's not really a bad thing, just let me be part of it. You running away isn't what I want, but I want to put in effort – check this – proportional to the amount of responsiveness you give.
I think women like the idea of something suddenly "becoming cute" and the associated meanings and feelings. I don't think that they really mean find a chick that don't like you and start pressing her.
Very beastly comment. Once that I don't have anything to add to, but that I admire.
Eff "courting." Furthermore anyone born after 1980 can ditch that "I'm old school" crap they be spewin.
I'm a Pisces like you Slim. Often that means I get tagged with the "aloof" thing or I get sistas analyzing me saying "you need a particular type of woman to hold your interest." They are right though. The whole chase gets played after a couple of weeks. If I were to not lose their number then the next point of order if she un-busyfies her schedule will be lead in with "when we f*ckin?"
Glad we're on similar wave lengths.lol.
"pu$$y crusher, black nasty motherf*cker. i don't chase em, i replace em and if i'm caressin em i'm undressin em"
now that i got that out the way. i agree with you 100%. i've never been the guy to go far out the way in courting a woman. if i like you i will let it be known. i will tell you that pretty early on. i don't jump through hurdles. not my nature.
"If I attempt to make plans with you and you flake without a good excuse and effort to reschedule on the spot, I’m done"
i've deaded so many chicks because of this. i can't stand to make plans and woman flakes on me. yeah you're bad but you ain't that bad for me to be wasting my time.
Biggie reference FTW!
Whew! Break between meetings so I can type and eat lunch.
A while ago I "courted" [or at least thought I was] a girl I worked with at a P/T job I was at. She'd been f*cked over by pretty much every guy she'd dated and was about to cross BM off the list altogether. So, before she went the Something New route, I asked her out.
We went out several times each time planned and initiated by me. I sent flowers to her job a few times and bought Xmas gifts for her and her son [even though friends and co-workers thought this was a wrong move]. We were complete opposites on paper. Her: reformed weed head turned Jesus freak, single mom, college dropout [going online at Univ of Phoenix]. I clearly expressed interest in seeing each other exclusively until "something happened" and she told me we "needed to talk".
Since our schedules were horrible with both of us working F/T and P/T jobs [plus being a parent] we agreed that at our next date we'd discuss what had happened.
Long story short, she told me one of the items on her Chex Bucket List was to be with a white guy. And during the course of us "courting" she was presented with said opportunity. They found a hotel and she got to cross an item off. Holding in the urge to either a) flip the table over and storm out, b) quietly sneak off to the men's room and leave her broke ass stuck with the check or c) be the gentleman my Daddy raised and play it off make sure she got home ok and just never call again.
I'll let ya'll guess which one it was…..
d) Pretend to be interested until I fcked her brains out, making sure to deep stroke and "accidentally" hit her cervix as hard and as often as possible, then never speak to her again.
*makes note add Hugh Calrissian to my spiritual advisors list*
Damn…
lol @ Hugh
and a "what in THEE holy hail" in a triangle @Eddie! That is some serious BS! Maaaaaan, you're a billion times better person than me…I woulda had to see if a butter knife could pierce skin…*smh*
"I woulda had to see if a butter knife could pierce skin…*smh*"
And then we'd be having this dialogue by way of the PG County Prison computer lab. And from what I hear they're still using dial-up connections….
OK, see…you didn't see what type of woman she was before you decided to court her?
^Backstory: a) she's a Gemini. She'd be one person on the phone and on dates someone totally different would show up; b) one of my co-workers told me to "get over myself" and give her a chance.
LOL. Give her a chance…
if I had a dollar…
Hey, hey, hey … don't blame that foolery on her being a Gemini … she was odd (lol) Who has doing THE Do with a white guy on their Bucket List? What is this 1810 & there's a creepy slave-master role reversal? WTH?
Myself & every relatively normal, relatively sane Gemini object to this! (Granted, the significance of what moon you were born under is undoubtedly minimal to making a person's character, ideals, and personality thoroughly flawed… nevertheless :D)
I believe the fart noise with your tongue sticking out is called a raspberry.
I wouldn't say I've gone to great lengths but once I missed a clear sign and then approached said woman a day later by calling her at her place of employment. She proved too busy…NEXT'd.
Time is money so I don't spend it uselessly. I'm a different kind of cat so I can tell if this will work and if the effort is worth it. I was taught that no one is irreplaceable.
Thankfully I got a woman now so I put my I-could-give-a-sh$tness on full display when out and about. If we don't work out, I'ma be singlay for a long time. All these calculations, assumptions, etc make my last nerve tired.
Only one comment, women complain about men not knowing how to court but women also dont know how to be courted. Courting isnt a one way street. Its a call and response where the parties take turn being the lead.
For as backwards as men are, women are equally backwards.
Consider dating a southern man.
1000% cosign
This is exactly why I stay single. These other cats can run around behind you. I catch cramps so i'll holla. And I CANNOT STAND a flaky woman. That's my #1 pet peeve for 2011. And bad weaves are a close 2nd!!
What do you think of the chase at this point in your life? Do you prefer to hunt or be hunted? Has getting someone’s attention easily ever turned you off? What is courting in 2010? Do you have rules around initially contacting someone you just met? Am I really a caramel douche?
I don't like games. I don't like to be hunted — I'm not an animal. I'm partial to connections that go beyond the physical (even if that is an inevitable starting point), so for me, getting attention [too] easily consists of a pursuit based solely on the way I look or the way he saw me slow winding on the dancefloor. Yes, it's flattering that he finds it appealing, but if there's no real connection established, I'll either be flat out turned off or simply disinterested, depending on the individual and the method of approach.
If we're talking about someone I am actually interested in, however, I appreciate any bit of attention as long as I'm not being smothered. Just like you, I have no plans to jump through hoops to catch anyone's interest. If I feel as though you are even mildly disinterested, I will mirror that, and conversation will eventually fizzle out. I dislike pointless interactions.
I don't have any rules per se, but things usually go a certain way. I don't generally give out my number, but when I do, I expect a call within the next 72 hrs. I won't necessarily be waiting on it, but anyone who tries something outside of that would have lost some favour by the first point of contact. I've never been in the habit of consistently picking up the phone to call non-SOs, so the first round of calls will be initiated by Y. During that time, I will pick up calls and respond to texts and VMs as time permits. It's always irked me when people don't do so – SO or no -, as I find it to be a breach of proper etiquette. It's possible for me to warm up to someone rather quickly and start initiating things, though.
To be honest, I expect very basic things from someone who intends to court me. A general & consistent show of interest, timeliness, respect, a sense of decorum, and we're good to go for as long as the chemistry is there.
And yes; You are, in fact, a caramel douche. Didja even have to ask?I yoke, I yoke; I keed, I keed.Oh yeah, I forgot to address the part about 2-3 strikes & such. If I ignore and refuse to return someone's call/text, then it means that I really do not want to speak with him/her and/or I'm delaying it for as long as possible. In that light, it would pay no one to leave me more than one VM/text. I just remembered a time when dude called me..then called me and left a VM..then called and left another VM to ask if I got his previous VM. Grrr. As for me, I will call and leave a VM, or text and leave it at that until I receive a response. I only make exceptions when I'm pressed for one.
Chasing isn't necessary, but genuine interest is. Two calls aren't necessary and neither are the extra texts and attempts at multiple dates. If two people are truly interested in one another, they would make time for each other and make an attempt to get to know each other.
So if I meet someone and exchange numbers, and he happens to drop of the face of the Earth after a few texts or phone call, take it for just what it is. He's not interested.
People put too much effort into trying to figure out whether or not someone's interested in them. If you have to wonder and try to decode their inconsistent texts and less than stimulating conversations, then they're probably not…
…As far as courting goes, I welcome it! Every lady deserves to be courted. That's just the way it should go in my opinion! 🙂
I almost hesitate to comment simply because my blackberry wrecked havoc in many a meeting today from commenting on a post earlier today. I won't be intimidated by the 184 postings (haven't read a one) and I also won't be 'suaded to comment as I wrote the female perspective on this very subject in my personal blog earlier this evening.
Having moved from the NYC to Boston, I miss the subtle aggressiveness of the male NYC'er. Not one for game, skits or pick-up lines, a genuine hello and genuine interest is what gets any perspective male my number.
I'm personally, am on a dating hiatus simply because I'm finding the simplicity and straightforwardness lacking in the LOCAL males I've come across in the last 8 months. Long story short, I'm old-fashioned by way of courting. You think I'm cute, you want to know more, ask me out on a date. If I'm interested I will act accordingly, if not I'll let you know at any stage of the courtship, as I expect you to. Its simple for me: you like me, you show a genuine interest to spend time with me. Phone, text, hell an email; with face time interspersed randomly but consistently. That's courtship to me. Simple.
Or rather should be…
Interesting perspective ny2b. I actually just moved from Boston to NYC and I'm having your problem in reverse I think. I found women wanted to be chased a lot more in Boston than in NYC. It's been easier for me to have a conversation with women here without having to jump over a pit of fire and run in place for 2 hours.
I do recall your move via current city change (we're FB friends). I think that my issue is just that: my issue. Its kind of a perfect storm of things: Namely, it is (was) a new city, where I worked (Financial District), my friends and my attitude.
Being born and raised in NYC, I never had issues with meeting men (still don't) I'm just having to adjust to the lack in quantity. In NYC I was overwhelmed by the onslaught of men. Not one to waste your time, if I'm not interested I POLITELY decline (I can tell you horror stories!) and keep it pushing.
I rarely think that a gentleman strikes up a conversation because they're interested; I think its friendliness to the girl who may be eating alone! I say that to say, I don't pick up on flirting queues too well; it takes an overt statement to let me know you're interested.
(In Boston, a person of color is a minority and quite aware of it. Seriously. Now, in NYC?! We mixed it up! Which opens MANY a more doors.)
Then working downtown, intermingling with other young professionals, I was the token. Everyone is not down with the swirl though I am an equal opportunity date. Last but not least, I am not in my 20's, but safely into my 30's (and act it) BUT everyone thinks I'm about 26. So when a 25 year old is asking me to "hang"; I'm lost! My friends are in their mid to late 20's and its hard to relate outside of certain social activities or ask for intros.
Though I meet men all the time, (Boston too) I'm not pleased with the approaches; or lack thereof. The first and last Bostonian guy I dated (8 months ago) kicked things off with "Hey Steph, I have somethings going on, but I'd like to take go out to dinner a little later, if you're free."
The fact that he knew me for a solid three years before asking, is another long story, but part of my dislike towards the Bostonian approach. Be decisive.
On that note, women in NYC realize the numbers and know that competition is FIERCE. These Boston chicks are under the impression that because of a list of accolades and specifications they may possess, exempts any other woman in a 3o mile radius. NYC women on the other know they have to compete with ALL other women; and sometimes males too. The options in NYC are abundant and women act accordingly!
Theres a thing in contract law called "Consideration" which basicly means both parties are putting up equal value/risk. I look at the initial contact as an agreement/contract that we are both looking for someone else in our lives so must equally put up the same "consideration". If one party puts up more consideration than the other its a void agreement.
I dont court women, I court the relationship, I put in effort to make this thing grow, and I expect my effort to be reciprocated, and I will do the same.
As for the "shes/im a 10 so there has to be more effort put in" I think thats BS, at the end of the day we're all human beings no matter what job you have, house you have, car you drive, fat your ass is, is not relevant to who you are as a person. Im very successful but I dont expect someone to treat me differently because of that. If my businesses crash does that bring me down to a 5? does the economy determin how much effort you/i have to put in a relationship?…
Oh, and chasing a woman for a year!?… Really!?… Thats the fastest way to a restraing order after you pass through simp-town!
What do you think of the chase at this point in your life? Do you prefer to hunt or be hunted?
^^^I liked to be chased in a sense but i will put in work too to show that i'm interested…it wouldn't be one-sided.
Has getting someone’s attention easily ever turned you off?
^^^Not from someone i'm interested in.
What is courting in 2010?
^^^shidddd…i wanna know too cause it doesn't seem like it happens these days.
Do you have rules around initially contacting someone you just met?
^^^I wouldn't obsessively contact them but i would do text maybe a few times in the course of a few weeks but if i don't get responses or they don't make an effort to contact me either, then i just let it go…i got tired of putting in more work then the other person.
Am I really a caramel douche?
^^^I don't think so!
Making the immature tongue between own lips farty sound
^^^ROTFLMAO
This was a good post…it is totally understandable!
Thank you! And everyone wants to label me with the "Oh, you give up too easily" tag when I said the same things about dating.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If she's not putting forth the same effort I am, she's not interested. If I feel like I'm chasing her, that means she is running away from me, not toward me. So I will let her be on he merry way. But all I ask is that if she does run away…..don't come back. I don't do second chances.
Sometimes you just got to follow a b****. I mean, it isnt stalking if she doesn't see you hiding in her bushes.
*Obviously, I'm kidding. Oh, sh*t, hold on, I think her neighbors saw me*
I don't court for sex. If she wants just the "chase" she gets one date and a follow up call she doesn't respond accordingly I dead contact. And any women that can't reply promptly clearly has options.
Women want to play this game need to be clear: if it's a relationship you want state it- act on it. If it's sex only but she crying "court me". She better put the knife down and pick up a gun.
i think men have just generally gotten very lazy.imagine meeting a guy,fantastic conversation ,lots of flirty flirts on both sides and with the guy promising to call.he doesnt call for 3 weeks and they run into each oda again and the chic bones(ignores) him,pretended like she has neva met him before,he still had the nerve to walk up to the lady and say "thought we had a nice conversation that day and i rily wantd to get to know u better,why didnt u call……wtf!of course the chic just contunues to ignore him and even pretends they neva met.
my analysis
1.if he is as obtuse as feeling that he still has the rights to come saying that kind of bull,then chic also has the right to act like she hasnt met him before in her entire life so he is left wondering if he dreamt the whole thing,now his turn to feel stupid!
2. he called and for 3 whole weeks her number just wasn't going thru..lol.
3.he was actually waiting for her to call first which in my books is l-a-z-y.
Women always want to be chased, pursued, wined and dined in some way or another. Though times has changed, there are some that still posess traditional values such as myself. If a man wants me he has to show me that he does, while keeping in mind that there are others trying to climb up this tree. This means a bit of chasing, but chasing is no fun if the chasers doesnt catch, so I understand Mr. Jackson's point of view. There are men that are a lil too persistant with the chase and they cant take a hint, this anxious type is a turn off and you can see that type from the first interaction. They usually get left behind or stay on hooks for when we need them. The man that is too anxious often means that he is "too" alot of things.Texting is informal and convenient but if a guy really wants to get to know me have a good conversation with me, the guy that wins my heart is able to talk to me via all medium.
What do I think of "the chase" at this point in my life? First, I'm tempted to title my response "I Will Chase You…IF You're Worthy.." I see the "relationship" between the RoadRunner and Wile E. Coyote as an apt analogy to my response to that question…
I'm quite sure everyone here knows about the "relationship" between the RoadRunner and Wile E. Coyote… That poor creature does some of anything under the sun to "catch" that blasted bird that seems to be just fast enough to evade his grasp. Some of ANYTHING… I think that, in certain cases, Wile E. Coyote would have succeeded IF he tried the same thing twice. I think that, in other cases, Wile E. Coyote would have succeeded IF he just TIMED it differently. In all the RoadRunner and Wile E. Coyote cartoons I'VE seen, there were only TWO times Wile E. either come close to catching the RoadRunner or CAUGHT the RoadRunner… He came close to catching the RoadRunner but ended up with a handful of feathers… And, the time he actucally DID catch the RoadRunner, he was in a position where it was impractical to do what he wanted with the RoadRunner… Since my youth, I had ONE consistent question: Why did Wile E. Coyote chase the RoadRunner so persistently?! As I got older (and far more cynical), I had come to realize that there could only be one answer: entertainment value for those who watch the RoadRunner and Wile E. Coyote cartoons.
I'm beginning to suspect a similar thing concerning the "typical" situation of men chasing women–entertainment to either both involved in "the chase", to one of both involved in "the chase", OR to spectators watching "the chase". Also, I'm beginning to believe courting in 2010 has become mere entertainment for most men and women.
Personally, however, I take "the chase" seriously since I see energy, thought, and time as three of the most nonrenewable resources in life. I LOVE being chased by a woman WHILE chasing that woman because I feel a woman TRULY worth being chased places very high value on the principle of RECIPROCITY. Getting a woman's attention easily only becomes a turn-off for me when it becomes evident that the woman's "attention" is actually insincere politeness. The real "caramel douche", I feel, is a WOMAN who has a man become some sort of Wile E. Coyote to "keep" her attention while she herself finds "catering a man" demeaning. Since many women CLAIM that insincerity from a man chasing her is a BIG turnoff, it's ONLY common courtesy to not fake interest in a man chasing a woman, either. And, since many women CLAIM to not want to waste time, it's ONLY common courtesy to not waste the time of a man chasing a woman, either. Just like karma can be a bad motherfucker to a man, karma can also be the cruelest of bitches to a woman.
I agree with symbiotic loner about the time, energy and effort. As I got/get older the "Chase" is not as it use to be nor is the prize! When I use to date I would take them to places that I liked to go because essentially we were out on my dime and not theirs. I often wonder will the hunter become the hunted…?
Your post is so…true
Yeppity yep…all crap….the only reason guys say this crap is because they WANT a woman to chase after them so they can have the ego boost that they need to go after the one that WILL NOT be stupid enough to throw themselves at someone without knowing properly whether they are a complete douchebag loser. Men do not want women to know that keeping reserved their distance at first IS the best way to get them hooked because it is their biggest power grab and they don't want to lost control.
Oh well, so guys go around and write this BS all over the net thinking that women will go "Ohhhhhh so guys really LIKE women who throw themselves at them, seek approval, give themselves up too easily and wear their heart on their sleeve"…."Cool…now I will definitely do that!" LOL! Whatever.
Ladies please think about it…when someone does not make you work for them…their love, their attention, their heart….they are showing very little regard for themselves, thereby giving a message that they are really not that valuable. Things that are not deemed valuable are discarded FAST.
And yes, if a guy only sends texts and does not call or calls LESS than 2 times per week in the beginning….he is lazy or not interested or both. He does this because 1) he really does not give a damn (the reason is insig) 2) he gets what he needs already from women who are willing to give it their all with no commitment or mutual understanding and 3) are generally self absorbed.
Stay away from these guys who post this crap about all the "it's a waste of time" and "not worth the effort" stuff. These are not guys that you want to end up with anyway…believe me. I had a few of these duds. Other areas of their lives/personality will parallel this lack of courtship behavior. Or you can choose to chase them and pin them down but please have some extra cash to dole out for someone to help you raise the kids, do housework and mow the lawn. Because if these folk think it's "effort" to court a woman you can bet they are not willing to go much further in any other areas either.
Personally I have noticed that these men are generally selfish, arrogant, misogynists and many times flat out narcissistic (as reflected in this particular post:). That's right…they hate chicks…love us but hate us…oh well…thank heavens for vibrators is all I have to say.
@Candice:
A few questions….
You said that men make these sorts of comments because they want women to chase them and to stroke their egos. Couldnt I make the same argument about women?
Do you really think that they're writing this on the internet so that they can indoctrinate women and make them easily susceptible to their game?
Your argument about valuation and discarding, couldnt i make the same argument in favor of men?
So EVERY SINGLE GUY who prefers texting to calling is not worth dating? Every single one huh? That's a pretty broad generalization.
"Other areas of their lives/personality will parallel this lack of courtship behavior. Or you can choose to chase them and pin them down but please have some extra cash to dole out for someone to help you raise the kids, do housework and mow the lawn. Because if these folk think it’s “effort” to court a woman you can bet they are not willing to go much further in any other areas either." – You know this about the writers of this post from personal experience? Did one of them date you?
So……ergo….Slim says he'll just walk away ladies…he just does not give a damn…haha…is that a threat or a promise? Who cares.
Appreciate the comment. The thing that gets me about your comments though is that no where in there did I say throw yourself at a man or aggressively go after him until you lock him down. I simply said it's okay to approach and say hello if you're interested. The fact that women got so worked up over this post and mention of rejection speaks volumes in itself.
I also said in there that I do approach and talk to women, but I won't chase. There's a difference.
Real men never chase women and real women never want to be chased.
All the rest is animalistic and retarded.
After all, humans should be above animals.
Thinking that putting forth effort to want to get to know someone is well a "real effort" just shows that you don't really want to work at anything. As a woman, I'd consider you a douche, somewhat lazy and glad not to know you. Who needs someone with this kind of negative immature drama who believes that another person just doesn't matter that much to really care enough to put forth any effort. You won't waste your time on someone based on assumptions that they are playing hard to get or don't care. While if they were in your face you would consider them clingy and needy..typical of most male douche bag mentalities!!!
Its really simple for me. IF I'm interested, I will approach you. I will chat with you. IF I'm interested beyond that, I will ask for your number and I WILL call you. I will call once….if I don't hear anything back, I will call a 2nd time. IF I still hear nothing, I assume she is not interested….unless I hear from her at some point. Its not that difficult. Folks love to play games and dish out these silly rules [men and women both], but life is too short. And yeah, I've gotten the fake-ass "hey mister, where have you been, I haven't heard from you" fake lines from a few ladies before. No hard feelings, a hug and Hello and I keep it moving.
The woman in the post boggles my mind. Ladies COURTSHIP ≠ CHASING!!!! Both have rules, the difference is all the rules have significant meaning. Rules to the chase are just silly. Courtship can be compared to joint race (be it marathon/ or middle distance sprint) with the end goal or prize being marriage! If either party no longer desires to make it to the finish line with the other person, they should at that time bow out gracefully. As long as the rules to courtship were honored, and both parties were/are respectful to one another; feelings should not be injured(caution: might still bruise a tad).
Courting is not about setting up dates, it is ability to learn about the person you wish to marry. That's right to marry. So, you will place yourself in areas that this person frequence just to draw a conversation in order to get to know the person better. Yes, be a friend first.
Yeah bruh, I'm with you on this post 110%, and I'm forwarding it to a gang of female friends to let them know I'm not the only one.
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